Not Your Average Investor Show
Not Your Average Investor Show
373 | Add Real Estate To Your IRAs & 401ks - It's Possible, Here's How w/ Jason Debono
Few people know that it's possible to invest in real estate with retirement accounts (IRA's & 401k's), and even fewer know how to do it properly, but those that do are often able to get more from their retirement dollars without increasing risk in their portfolio.
That's why we're bringing back our resident guest expert with over 17 years of experience in the self-directed IRA industry, Jason Debono.
He'll join co-founder of JWB Real Estate Capital, Gregg Cohen, and show host, Pablo Gonzalez to discuss:
- How to set up your retirement account to invest in real estate
- Where many investors are finding funds in retirement accounts that can kick start their real estate portfolio
- What you need to know to mitigate risk and reduce your tax burdens as
Jason has served as Director of Business Development, Director of Operations, and Vice President for NuView Trust Company – a self-directed custodian with over $2.1 Billion of assets under custody. Now, in his role as President, Jason oversees the day-to-day activities of the company. He is heavily recruited to speak on podcasts and at national events as a subject matter expert in tax-advantaged investing through retirement accounts.
Don't miss your chance to pick the brain of a world renown expert about your particular questions on retirement funds investing!
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today. We're talking about a little trick that only the pros know only not your average investors know. And it's the fact that you can add real estate to your IRAs and your 401ks. It's not just legal. It's totally doable. And it's a really smart strategy under the right circumstances. And, we're going to teach you the house. Welcome everybody to the Tuesday edition of the not your average investor show I'm your host Pablo Gonzalez with me as always the guy that I affectionately like to call GC because of his genius concepts, because he knows how to generate cashflow because he's a great co host and because his name is Greg Cohen. Say hello, Greg. Hello,
Gregg Cohen:everybody. Great to be with you. And
Pablo Gonzalez:returning back to the show, our resident experts on this investing in IRAs and 401ks. He is the president of NewView Capital who has Over 2 billion as a self directed custodian. Jason Debono, celebrity on the scene. Welcome to the show,
Jason Debono:my friend. Oh man, good, uh, good to be here. How are you guys? We're great. Great to have
Pablo Gonzalez:you, man. I love, I love the setup. I love the neon sign, the palm tree behind you, man. Looking, looking real pro. Your team did a great Nothing more Florida. Nothing more Florida. That's right. Out of Orlando. Out of Orlando. And speaking of Florida. February 16th and 17th. We are having the Not Your Average Investor Summit here in Jacksonville. I'm sorry, folks, if you haven't, didn't get a chance to sign up immediately when we announced it, because it's sold out and we have a waiting list of over 40 people. And at this point, that waiting list is not a waiting list. It is a peer pressure list. To Greg and the JWB team about us hosting another summit. So if you're interested in coming and you wish you would have signed up go to jwbsummit. com Sign up and maybe we'll put on another one. But for this one what we got we got two days of Education two days of behind the scenes of a city being built here in jacksonville downtown. What is happening? Meeting some uh really important players here and more than anything, two days of connection of the community of the folks that show up here week in and week out with the nicknames that know each other that get together here. and hanging out with me and GC, what do
Gregg Cohen:you think GC? Man, I think you, you described it perfectly, right? It's an opportunity to get, to meet the team that. Yeah. Gets to support all of our investors and that's really special. We don't get to shake hands and meet all of you face to face as often as we'd like. So it's going to be incredible. You get to see what it's like to see a bit, a city being built this 4 billion of construction that's going on in downtown Jacksonville. You're going to be front and center with the people who are actually making the big decisions to spend that money. So it's going to be incredible. And our community is going to have a blast. We always do. So I'm super excited. I know a lot of folks have reached out and asked questions about. Hotels and logistics and parking and all that good stuff. If you have some of those questions go to JWB summit. com and that information is posted there towards the bottom of the page. And there's more information to come. You'll be getting more emails. I think there's a WhatsApp group that, we have already started. So this community feel. is always here. You're going to feel it before the event. You're going to be feeling it during the event and after. So couldn't be more pumped, man.
Pablo Gonzalez:You know, what else are going to be feeling the presence of Jason Debono? Cause new view is a new view is a sponsor. So thank you. New view. That is a really cool that you guys pitched in to be a part of this. Jason, I'm sure people want to meet with you and, and, and chop it up. You guys, you guys host your own events too, right? Like you guys got a thriving community and you guys put together some cool stuff
Jason Debono:too. We do. Yeah, we're, we're looking forward to being there in February and, delivering a little message on the IRA side. Uh, similar to kind of what we'll talk about today. And, and I'm excited personally to go check out what you guys are doing in Jacksonville and, pretty exciting stuff and, and pretty exciting stuff to be part of. And, I think actually, uh, JWB is also participating and are all about alts. Conference called Altcon, coming up, in October. So a little bit more time, on that. And we still do have some seats available, but, but excited for it. And it's going to be a similar event, just full house with a bunch of speakers on all different alternative asset strategies. Heck
Pablo Gonzalez:yeah, man. Heck yeah. That is cool. I definitely want to, I definitely want to check that out. And um, you know, the other thing that you get to do if you come to the summit is you get to put a name to the face. You got to put a face to the name of the people that we call out and what do you see? The roll call
Jason Debono:baby. Roll call
Pablo Gonzalez:baby! We kick it off with our MVP. Mr. Lee Bishop. Mr. Lee Bishop. May have heard of him. The mystery man is in the house checking in second. Danny Davies. Lead a song, beautiful investor from Minnesota. Good to have you back. The Maven is in the house. GC, who's that?
Gregg Cohen:Leslie Wilson. Of
Pablo Gonzalez:course. We got Chris Lee from Fernandina Beach. Chris, good to have you back. Charity Graham. Is that a new name? New name. Welcome to the show, Charity. Good to have you. Welcome to the party. You know, Charity, you may have, may or may not have heard of this, but there is we have somebody called Marilyn Cotterman and she's from Homasasa, Florida. What's important about that, GC?
Jason Debono:Pablo, that is the home of
Gregg Cohen:the manatees.
Pablo Gonzalez:Home of the manatees. Welcome back, Maryland. Good to have you. We got Vincent Barbarai back in the house from Long Island. Vince is becoming a regular. We got the legend of Charlottesville, Virginia, the man with a hockey arena named after himself.
Gregg Cohen:Roger voicenet, of course. Roger
Pablo Gonzalez:voicenet. We got our leadoff hitter, batting a little late today. John Henning. John Henning. We got our, the five Fs. Our favorite, fiduciary, financial, flat fee advisor friend. Kelly Barenbaum, Barenbaum. We got our regulars, Gary and Rosalind Riley from Marietta, California. We regard you. We regard you. We got, our amigo with a buenas tardes amigos, Mr. Bill Shields. We got Glenn Schenken in the house. Glenn, I feel like that's familiar. You don't come often, but it's good to have you here. Steven Chmielewski from Providence, Rhode Island, just making the total habit out of this. Got to come up with a nickname there. John Moran is back in here in the house. We got the mama bear in the house, Cody Adams, our amazing community manager, Reggie Fonse. New name? New name! Alright, new name! Reggie, good to have you in the house, man. Oh, we got the ringmaster in the house! Drew Barnhill. We got John Lopez, that's Do you also have a new name too? John Lopez? I don't know. The star of the show, Jeffrey Wunder, the Wunderkind. Good to have you, Jeffrey. Checking in from New Orleans. Good to have you back. I hope you're coming to the summit, man. We got the shaman, isn't it? Nadeem Shah. Nadeem Shah. Glenn Shenkin says all of his properties are in a four on a solo 401k. Good to know. Stanley Jocelyn's back in the house. Thank you, Stanley, for coming back. Good to have you in here. We got Big Papa. We love it when he calls it Big Papa. Pops, how are you, my man? The founder, the co founder of the co founder, father of Jay, of Greg Cohen, Jay Cohen, good to have you. We've got
Jason Debono:Billy
Pablo Gonzalez:Green, the cacophonously quiet mountains of Colorado, cacophonously quiet. That's a heck of an oxymoron, buddy. We got the patron Santoros in the house,
Gregg Cohen:Michael Santoros.
Pablo Gonzalez:From, from Northern Virginia. Good to have you back in here. We got Medge Garcia. Medge, I haven't seen you in a minute. Good to have you back, Medge. I think Medge is coming to the summit, if I'm not, if I'm not mistaken, I'm, I'm looking forward to meeting her. Uh, yeah. All right, cool. Let's kick this off before we, uh, Oh, Danny Faledo from Jax. Good to have you Danny in here. okay. Let's kick this thing off. I don't want to keep Jason Debono waiting over here. He's got. Two billion plus of assets to like self, custodian, manage over there. Jason, when people first find out about this idea of like investing into real estate through a 401k, like when you say that at parties or people are like, is this
Jason Debono:illegal? Is that true? Man, you know, I love that because about, I don't know, 18, 19 years ago, I got into this and Oh, man, it was everywhere, right? Like, did you know you could do that? Well, that's illegal. My broker said, no Schwab doesn't do it. So you can't do it. you know, I think the the technology age and the information age has helped. You know, I think what we're seeing is the answer is not really. Can you do it? It's more. How do you actually do it? So, that's, I think, a good positive sign of the industry and just people getting a little bit more aware of what's possible. But yeah, I still get it every now and then, you know, and my favorite one is, well, if Schwab doesn't do this, it must not be legal. My thought is like, well, I didn't realize that Schwab or whomever was the litmus test on legalities, but it's, it's fun. It's fun to talk about and it's fun to give people a little insight into just what they can do.
Pablo Gonzalez:Love that GC. I know, I know that you used to get that stuff all the time, right? Are you, are you, are you also seeing like a downtrend and people like understanding this because, because of like freedom of information? I mean, has JWB clientele like is, what's the ratio of, of people that like invest inside their 401k versus outside the 401k?
Gregg Cohen:It's interesting because, you know, starting out 18 years ago, nobody knew a whole lot about what turnkey rental property investing was. I mean, there was a time and a place where JWB was only one of one other company in the entire country. creating this passive approach to rental property investing. So, and people know what rental properties were. They just didn't know that you could do it this passive way. So people didn't know that. And they definitely did not know that you could actually use your 401k or your IRAs to actually own real estate. So I do remember. And I, I share those same stories with, with Jason about the, the old days of, just overcoming the legality of something like this. I would say now there, there is. There's definitely a whole lot more education and knowledge, and I think especially as sort of mainstream media got on board with the idea of owning rental properties, and that was the asset class of choice, you know, especially a few years ago that there's been a lot more openness, acceptance and I agree with Jason, and now it's like, okay, now I know it's possible. Who do I go to? Who can I trust? Who has done this before? and that's of course, you know, our relationship with NuView is, it's been around for, since we got started, Jason and I both started in this game roughly the same time. So it's really wonderful to bring a partner on like Jason today to kind of go through the blocking and tackling and help everybody understand how you can put your retirement assets to use to help you accomplish your rental property investing goals and ultimately your financial goals. Let's
Pablo Gonzalez:do it. Let's get into the X's and O's. Jason. So I. If I understand this correctly, this is not typical company 401k when you're working for like fortune 500, there isn't like a little checkbox that you're just like real estate, please, right? Like there's, there's a couple steps to take here, right?
Jason Debono:It is, you know, I think the first thing to do is to separate 401ks and IRAs, right? And I think we kind of interchangeably talk about them and it's so natural, but The reality is a 401k is an employer plan that you have to be employed by someone that offers it to have one. An IRA is an individual plan. You just have to make money to have one. Two completely different things and you can't have both. And I think a lot of people miss that mark and miss that opportunity. The reason 401ks are so great and everybody that's listening that's working for a company that offers it. Check the box. Yes. And check the box to at least contribute enough to get the maximum match that they offer. That's a hundred percent return. And if, if anyone doesn't feel like that's good return, you're probably, you know, maybe a little bit too overzealous on how, how return works. Like a hundred percent return on every dollar you save. You can't beat it. There's also some tax benefits, payroll deduction, right? I could go on and on. The drawback, and it is a drawback, but it's not terrible, is that employer plans have very limited investment choice. 401k plans have a trustee, that trustee is responsible for the, the investments. And the last thing that they want is, is, you know, somebody on, on the team going rogue and making some crazy investments, and then they have to answer to some investment committee about it. So the way they do that to stay out of the legal, you know, hurdles is very simple. Most 401k plans have less than seven choices. Right. They just want to make sure that there are only enough people enough assets in that that plan to give people a little bit of choice. Right. A little bit more aggressive, a little bit less aggressive, a little more conservative, a little less conservative, but they don't want to take any risk. Right. So that's how 401k plans work. IRAs? IRAs are yours to do whatever you want with. There's no investment restrictions other than the investment restrictions put on by the custodian you choose. So I kind of use this like the food example. You're only limited to what they serve at firehouse subs. Because you went to Firehouse Subs. If you want pizza, go to a pizza shop. If you want a burger, go to a burger shop. And with food, we all know that we just pick and choose based on menu. Well, we don't realize it because the marketing of these big financial firms is very good. But the reality is, is you are selecting their menu when you go. And it's not a bad thing, right? We don't, we don't curse Firehouse for not serving. You know, pizza. We just go to the pizza shop. So companies like NewView, third party custodians, self directed IRA custodian firms, we exist to help people that want a broader menu of choices. And they're willing to go find, evaluate, do their own due diligence and make their own investments. And that's really what we do, is keep, we give them the custody, we give them the operations, the back end, the processing. What we don't give them is the investment, the strategy, the due diligence, because that's just not our role. And if you think about it, we couldn't possibly do due diligence on, you know, the hundreds of thousands of unique investments our clients made, right? But if you have an IRA, Your door is open today. If you've got a 401k from a previous employer that can roll over to an IRA, that door is open today. So there's nothing stand between you and buying a rental property today. If you've got a 401k with your active employer, then we need to have some dialogue about whether or not you're eligible to take it out. And it's not a bad thing. You're gainfully employed. And there's some rules that we got to make sure that we're following. But I know Greg and I were chatting about some strategies, and I'm sure at some point those will pop up. As well. Our goal is to give everyone access to the investments they want, right? What investments those are is our clients, but we believe, in choice and we believe that that the market should offer everybody every asset class. And that's really why NewView exists.
Pablo Gonzalez:Well said, my friend, listen, we are, we are now right around 15 minutes in is when we kind of like level off at peak attendance. We have over 90 people here. They want to hear all about it. we've got some great questions in the Q and a, and I want to get to them. So I would say if you could, can you just talk us through a little bit of the blocking and tackling of. having an IRA and what a custodian means and how you actually get a real estate asset into that.
Jason Debono:Yeah. Happy to. And certainly Greg, anything on the process side for you guys to, throw in there. Let me know. But. General premise, right? Think about an IRA today, and let's just start with stocks and bonds. You have an IRA, you find a financial provider, right? Schwab, Fidelity, Merrill, any of the companies out there. They are a custodian, right? They do all the IRS reporting on that IRA account for you. That's their job. They also facilitate investments at your direction. So, GC, just because I want to use GC as many times as I can today. So GC takes his account, he goes to Schwab, he's got 50 grand in an IRA, and he can buy whatever the platform allows him to. Now in this case, it's everything publicly traded, right? Stocks, bonds, mutual funds. GC goes on the website, he sees he wants to buy, you know, shares of Apple, and he buys 50, 000 worth of Apple. What Schwab is doing on his behalf is executing that trade, hosting that position in his account, reporting on that position any changes or updates in valuations, and then they report to the IRS and back to GC as needed, at a minimum annually, but usually it's monthly and quarterly via statements. That scenario is the exact same at NewView, but what you're doing is different, right? So in this case, GC says, Hey, I have 50 grand. I don't want to buy a stock. I want to buy a rental property. So he takes his 50 grand. He goes to someone like NewView because we will give him the ability to do that. Now, he can't just go online and look through our directory of investments. It simply doesn't work that way, but conceptually, it's still the same. He finds the investment. Authorizes us to to to make the investment. We work through the process to book that asset into his account. We keep track of everything that goes in or out of that account. And we do all the reporting back to GC and to the IRS as required. Exact same reporting mechanism. Exact same reporting forms. The only difference is GC's statement from Schwab says 50, 000 worth of Apple. And GC's statement from NuView says 50, 000 worth of 123 Main Street. Yeah,
Gregg Cohen:and I'll jump in from the real estate investor side. You know, I just think of my self directed retirement account, either that self directed IRA or a solo 401k, those accounts that I have, I just think of those as a separate bank account that I can use. to acquire the real estate that I want to acquire. You just, as a real estate investor, your question may be, well, how do I find the money to start investing in rental properties? And for many of us, that's a challenge. Well, the average American has over 100, 000 in their retirement account, right? So, when I often say, finding the money is usually the easiest obstacle to overcome. There's a whole lot of other obstacles to overcome as far as getting into rental properties. Finding the money is actually the easiest one to overcome. One strategy is unlocking your retirement account through just what Jason's talking about. Because that, to me, as I'm thinking about how can I put my assets to use to accomplish my financial goals, No longer do you have to say, well, I can't touch this retirement account. I can't touch this 401k, this IRA, this solo 401k. Now you can open your eyes and your mind and say, well, that can be assets and resources I can use to start the plan.
Jason Debono:Yeah. And I think, you know, Greg, you nailed it in terms of, you know, the hardest thing in real estate or any investment is actually the deal. Right. And evaluating it and making sure that it meets your investment criteria. I had a real estate investor kind of slash mentor of mine said, never worry about the money for anything you do in your life. If the deal's right, you'll find the money. And I think that's really what, what this is. The other thing that I'll just add, and I sit on the other side of this fence, take real estate aside. You've got this nest egg of money that's growing in a tax advantage manner. Right. And so when you think about generating good quality, healthy returns, the more that you put into your passive tax free bucket, the better. And so there's some strategy to that, too. And it's not just about, you know, what you buy. And there's reasons why you may use your personal money, where you may use an IRA, where you may use an HSA or whatever other other buckets you have to pull from. But one thing an IRA can offer that no other vehicle can offer you is tax free growth. And, and that compounding tax free growth, especially if you think these are assets that will outperform what's readily available to them man, that's massive. Good investment return and tax free like that's, that's literally the, the number one trick of the wealthy.
Pablo Gonzalez:Awesome. All right. So, if I'm getting this correctly, essentially You have your retirement vehicles, right? Be it a 401k in a company, be it a Roth IRA or a traditional IRA that you have outside on by yourself. The key here is to understand that you have options. And if you want to invest beyond the options that are already given to you, then that's when you start asking some questions about, Hey, you know, like what are these things that are available to me here? And if you're not, if you're not giving me that there's other people out there that are capable of it. And those folks are essentially the self directed custodian that allows you to have the right governance that you need in order to have this tax deferred vehicle, but allows you to make. Basically whatever, you know, whatever decisions you want to make with that money based on, on your own research. Is that kind of like the gist of it? You nailed it. All right, cool. Perfect. So that being said, Greg, if you could explain, you know, we talk a lot about this show on when it comes to rental properties, we've got five profit centers, right? We've got, Cashflow, we've got tax deferment, we've got debt pay down, we got inflation hedging, and then of course we have home price appreciation, which is always the biggest piece of the pie. And one of the things that we love so much about it all in real estate is the, the act of leverage, right? The idea that you can invest. A little bit of money and then put someone else's money to work for you as well. Can you just talk through what people need to know when it comes to rental properties, the difference between investing traditionally and investing in this tax deferred,
Gregg Cohen:Vehicle? Yeah. So I'll, I'll talk about it from two different points. We'll talk about it in regards to the five profit centers. What changes when you invest in a retirement account? and what versus outside of a retirement account. And then we'll also talk about leverage. So when you're inside of a retirement account, your profit centers work a little bit differently. And you've got those five profit centers, right? You still getting that rental income. You still have principal pay down if you have a loan because you can get leverage for purchasing a property in your retirement account, right? You still get home price appreciation. It's still an inflation hedge all those good things. But the tax savings component works a little bit different. And it's not to your disadvantage, but like Jason was just describing, one of the most one of the secrets of the rich is to make sure that you are taking care and paying your fair share of taxes and no more than that. And when you invest in a retirement account, invest in a rental property, in a retirement account, It's already tax deferred or tax free. Saying it another way, if you invest outside of your retirement account, you have to work hard to get it to be tax deferred. and the way that you do that is you get a write off called depreciation along with all those other write offs and in effect what you're trying to accomplish is tax deferred status so that your assets can grow tax deferred, and you do that through all those write offs. Well, when you invest in a retirement account and you buy properties in a retirement account, you already have that, right? If it is a a traditional IRA, it's tax deferred. If it is a Roth IRA, it is tax free growth. So you've already accomplished it. You don't get the additional depreciation when you invest in a retirement account because quite frankly, you've already reached the goal. You're already at tax deferred or tax free growth status. And so that's a common question that you get. And sometimes people feel like, Oh, geez, well, maybe I Maybe I'm missing something because I'm not getting depreciation when I invest in a retirement account. And I try to flip that perspective. And I'm like, you're already there. You already have it because it's a tax deferred or tax free vehicle, and every other profit center is the same, whether you're outside of a retirement account or inside a retirement account. Now, leverage, on the other hand, is very different. If you are outside of a retirement account, what you're going to get is, most likely, you'll get conventional financing. And that's a typical Fannie Mae loan. It is, A loan where, you know, you'll put down anywhere from at minimum 20 percent down to generally clients are putting maybe 35 percent down, sometimes 40 percent down if they want to get additional cash flow. You'll get the lowest rates possible out there. And, right now, the projections that we use for a JWB investment is five and three quarters percent. So you're going to get the lowest rates possible. That's conventional loans. That's outside of your retirement account. And that's because these are loans that, are readily available. Every bank wants to originate alone like this. And then it's supported on the back then through Fannie Mae, which is a government sponsored entity and, and that's just kind of the way the system works. So there's a, there's, there's a healthy balance of demand and supply there. And you're able to, of course, get the lowest rates that you can. Now flip into retirement account zone here. If you want to get leverage in a retirement account, you absolutely can. The terms are very different. There's a very small niche of lenders that actually will lend. to properties that are purchased in your retirement account. It's a different type of loan and it's called non recourse loans. And a non recourse loan has to be this type of loan to be made to your retirement account because a bank cannot have recourse against your IRA if your IRA does not pay the loan back to the bank. It has to be a non recourse loan. And the reason is because Because you are not your IRA. Your IRA does not have a social security number and it's impossible for the bank to have that type of recourse against your IRA because it is not you. It is a separate entity and so there inherently there's more risk to the lender because of that. If your IRA takes out a loan to buy a property and the IRA does not pay the bank back. The bank will still take your property, but they don't attack your personal credit, and because of that, it's a different ballgame, and the terms are not as advantageous for you as you're buying a property in your retirement account. So think higher down payments, so generally 50 percent down, 5 0 percent is the minimum, because the banks want to have more security when they're making a non recourse loan, and your interest rates will be a lot higher. I don't know exactly what they are right now. They tend to change from time to time, but definitely not five and three quarters. Think more along the 10 to 12 percent interest rate environment for a non recourse loan. And the next question may be, well, can I still get positive cashflow in those types of scenarios? And the answer is yes. We just have to, again, put a plan together for you. So that we can make sure you have the right down payment percentage, the right mix of the assets. Because many times what we'll do is combine leveraged properties in your retirement account with cash purchases to make sure that this is a portfolio that pays for itself within your retirement account. How'd I do there, Pops? I
Pablo Gonzalez:thought that that was pretty good, man. Pretty good, pretty good. What do you think, Jason? You think
Jason Debono:you did all right there? I love it. I, I think the only thing I would add, you know, just, just to highlight is that in an IRA, you cannot get leveraged to buy stocks. And so, you know, while, while Greg is, is highlighting the difference and yeah, non recourse loan is not as good as a traditional loan, right. For all the reasons Greg mentioned, but before we assume it's bad, let's just focus on one key thing here. No lender will write you a loan in an IRA on. stocks because it has to be non recourse. They don't want the stocks as their loan collateral. Now I'm not knocking stocks, right? Although I, I probably am inadvertently, but think about that. Lenders will not write you a loan solely secured by stocks, but lenders will write you a loan solely secured by real estate. Let that sink in and let that touch. You about the asset class. So, yeah, is there a couple of hurdles you've got to jump through potentially, but when you look at the value and the opportunity and the benefit on the backend, there there's small time potatoes in terms of what you've got to do but the opportunity is massive, absolutely massive.
Pablo Gonzalez:Fair point, man. Fair point, right? Like this idea of look at all you gotta, all you gotta think about when it comes to a risk. you know, a risk port, you know, like how you evaluate risk is that they're willing to write you a loan on something with no recourse just because the asset is so good. And that's why everybody loves real estate. Of course, I want to get into, we have a ton of really good questions in the Q and a, and I want to dive in because I want to reward you for showing up real quick, that explanation that Greg just gave that Jason just gave. If you want to hear that again, and you want some handholding and you have some like direct questions to ask experts that have access to the lending that have. Access to custodians like new view, go to chat with jwb. com. And if you need just like that, that is where you go to get your questions directly answered and all the minutiae. And there's experts here at JWB that will talk you through all of this. They do this all the time. And you know, there's few people out there that are experts on this stuff. So like really just verifying anything that your buddy told you with somebody that chat with jwb. com, probably a good idea. All the way through to just like, Hey, this is what I'm thinking. Am I crazy? They can talk you through it and put a plan together. That's what happens there. But Jason, that being said, I want, I want to get into these like specific questions. So lead us on has a question. Can you use your HSA for rental property? Is that stuff that you guys do?
Jason Debono:You sure can. Love the question. Gold star, you are out ahead of your peers for even just, just thinking that way. Yes, absolutely. Any type of, and it's interesting and HSA is not a retirement account, but it's governed. None of the provisions of retirement accounts, but traditional Roth SEP, simple HSA and ESA. And, and, and I guess I've got the mic so I can do what I want, but, but, uh, yank it away, Pablo, if I get too, too off kilter here, but. One of the things that's so cool. Not only can you use an HSA, right, which is a way to save for your health expenses, right? Tied to the high deductible health plan. You can also use an ESA, which is an educational savings account, which is used to save for your kids educational expenses. So I and then. If you really want to go for the trifecta, you can marry those together. And I'll give you a quick example. I buy investments in my retirement accounts with my 401k, right, which is Roth, by the way, my HSA, and I have two kids and I use both of their ESAs. And the four of them, pro rata, right, based on money in, money out, can actually buy properties together. So that's kind of like kindergarten, middle school, high school, college all wrapped up in one big answer. We won't dig too much into that, but just know you've got so much flexibility and the answer is likely yes. We just got to figure out how to get to the yes.
Gregg Cohen:I love that story. I want to piggyback on a similar story because I do the same thing with my family because, while you can do exactly what Jason is talking about, some of you might say, well, I only have a small amount in my HSA or my Roth IRA because there's contribution limits and you may be younger or you may just not have contributed for that long. So it's very normal to have. Maybe 10, 000 or maybe 20, 000 or less in an HSA or a Roth or your iRA, whatever it is. Well, the idea of partnering with yourself or with other family members, I think, is a beautiful strategy to start investing. You can do this for rental properties. You can also do this for private lending. And so, it's a way, again, I keep coming back to that idea where if you overcome these other challenges, if you find the right team, you find the right investment, the money is the easiest thing to solve. Well, that story that Jason just unlocked right there, and then I'm piggybacking on might be that unlock for you. You could partner up. You could take 10, 000 from your HSA, 10, 000 from a Roth IRA, and you could start to invest today.
Pablo Gonzalez:Yeah. That's powerful stuff. Just like leveraging all that together, like family assets in you know, like the retirement accounts to like, just build. What sounds like generational wealth for everybody involved, right? cool. So, the shaman, Nadeem Shah, has got a question. I have a little money in a 401k. If I take it out, I have to pay Uncle Sam? What do you say to that, Jason?
Jason Debono:Well, it depends, so, so let's just set the record straight on what we mean by take it out. So if you roll it to an IRA and use that IRA to invest in real estate, no, no tax, no penalty, because the IRS says you're keeping it fully under the umbrella or veil of a retirement account. If you take the 401k, withdraw the money into your name and then you go buy the real estate, then yes, you have actually taken it out. The beauty of retirement accounts is there is no tax liability with very few exceptions, unless you withdraw it. And if you choose a Roth, which is a choice. And so I know I'm guilty of saying tax free. And I think I saw a chat come through that said, well, it's really tax deferred. My philosophy is no, it's not. It's tax free because that's the choice I'm always going to choose because that choice is given to me when it makes sense for those on the call to deferred back to tax deferred. Go for it, right? That's a good financial choice when it makes sense. We've got it backwards today. We all defer to pre tax, right? Let's kick the tax can down the road. And I think we've got to change our perception completely. Let's divert all of our thought process to I'll pay Uncle Sam today. I'll give you an example. It's January. Greg, if I came to you in G. C. and said, G. C. Give me give me 30 grand right now and you don't have to file your taxes for 2024. You'd probably be like. Here, here's 40, you know, thanks. We would all jump on it, right? Because you make a rational decision. That decision is made in our IRAs every single day. And if you can't buy the tax free wealth over your lifetime, you probably shouldn't be investing. Cause I just asked Greg to do this in a one year scenario. That means he's got to earn enough money to offset that 30 grand that he paid me. If I said, GC, you've got 30 years to earn whatever bit you pay me today back. Come on, 30 years. You can't generate enough return tax free to offset the 3, 4, 5 grand that you save in an IRA. So there's a lot of moving parts. And I know we talk in generalities and I'm, I'm, I'm half, halfly joking to have a little bit of fun today. Cause I think it's just a fun group, but, yeah, we're, we're here to challenge the way we think. Sounds like not
Pablo Gonzalez:the average advice, which is what we like on this show. All right. So Stevie B's in the house. Stevie B. Good to have you here, man. He's asking what's required to convert a solo K to a solo IRA.
Jason Debono:So if you've got a solo K and, and solo Ks are kind of this, they're in between an employer sponsored plan and an IRA, right? They, they're, they're basically what we call solopreneur type 401k plans. So there's a provision that says if you're, if you're a small business, right? One or two people, usually husband and wife, or. You know, family members, you know, mother and child or whatever, that have a business. It's really hard to open a 401k for that business. There's a lot of reporting and record keeping requirements. So a lot of people don't do it. So back in 2008, they kind of switched the rules and said, Hey, we'll create this. Basically, it's still a 401k plan. But it's only for owner only, right? Small businesses where the only employees are the owners. And what it does is it gives access to all the luxuries of 401ks without the headache. So going back to that, if you have a solo 401k, don't convert it unless you're terminating the business that it's tied to, you can self direct a solo 401k. So what I think we need to do and what was the gentleman's name that asked the question? It was Stevie B. Stevie B. Stevie, when you, when you are looking at your account, your 401k plan may just have been provided to you by a company that put restrictions in it. If that's the case, Nuview can give you a new solo 401k so you're still covered. Same guidelines, same rules, same investment contribution limits, but ours are fully self directed, right? So you can now go buy real estate. So I, in this case, I don't think you need a new plan. I think you just need a new plan document and we can talk offline about that.
Gregg Cohen:And I'll just, I'll just add that there are a lot of folks in this community that are, real estate investors, that's their active business. And the solo 401k is such a, an opportunity. If you are a solo entrepreneur, especially in real estate, it seems to work so well. And there is a lot of advantages over a solo, of a solo 401k over a, call it a regular 401k. Your contribution limits are a lot more. I mean, last I checked, it was over 50, 000 for the year that you can contribute. It's probably more because I haven't checked it in a year or two. And so, and that is, you know, two to three times. the level that you can contribute for a regular IRA. So again, for this community here that I know so well, many of you already have solo 401ks and when you can contribute more your ability to be able to scale your portfolio inside your solo 401k is so much larger. You can get there quicker. so definitely look into a solo 401k if that describes you as a solo entrepreneur.
Pablo Gonzalez:Awesome. Speaking of solo 1k, Kelly Berenbaum, who's my financial advisor, that's been telling me to set up a 401k and I owe you guys a call over there at new view. she's asking Jason, can you talk about Roth versus traditional 401ks or IRAs and how to think about slash plan for required minimum distributions?
Jason Debono:Yeah, great, great question. And definitely someone that's thinking of the holistic picture. So I love that. 401ks and IRAs from a pre tax and post tax are the same. The rules are the same. So we'll just take both of this off and just say traditional and Roth. And when we say traditional, we mean everything that's not a Roth. Right. Pre tax. So you have two choices when you put money into a retirement account. Either pay the tax today, which is the Roth, and don't pay it later, or get a tax deduction today, and then ultimately pay the tax later. Right. Now, again, my opinion and, for full disclaimer, it's only my opinion, right? Every unique, every situation is unique. So I genuinely may talk to your advisor, your accountant, and really understand it, but ask the right questions. So remember I said earlier, I default to Roth and then it's traditional because I have to, not because I want to. And I say that because for, for a couple of reasons, number one, if I have the ability to buy Uncle Sam out of my transactions for, for life, I'm taking it. I don't care. You can tell me, well, what if the tax rate this? I'm not playing that game. You tell me Uncle Sam will not touch a penny of the earnings of this money from today forward. You got me. And I know that because the tax rate that I have to pay is my current tax rate. So even in the highest tax bracket, I'm still making that bet personally. Right. I'm not thinking twice, but I understand for those of you on the call, maybe you do think twice and that's okay. But I just would challenge you to think the other way, right? It's not innocent till proven guilty, guilty till proven innocent, right? And so I want to be guilty as charged for this Roth until maybe I back out of it for whatever reason. The reason that's so critical is because if you think about the way investments work over time, you're not just buying an investment, right? Tax free. So let's just say I take, and I'm, I'm using round numbers, but let's just say I take a hundred grand, right? And I, I buy an investment and, and that investment grows to 120. A lot of people say, well, that's 20 grand of profit, 20 grand of profit plus tax is X. What they don't calculate in is a couple things. Number one, That tax bill likely has to be paid. That's money lost, right? The second thing is that that now 120 that reinvests is going to have another tax bill. And then I reinvested, it's going to have another tax bill. When I have a Roth, I've bought every one of those transactions tax free. So you can actually basically offset 8, 10, 12 times. So not getting too complex in taxes, but when you buy these. Deals in your personal account. Depreciation is a temporary solution, right? And it's, it's a, it is going to come back at the end of each deal, right? You don't get rid of it forever. It's a great thing, but it's not as good as a Roth. The last thing I'll just illustrate, right? And this is how it works. 1. Right. Everybody takes 1, and we double it every year for the next 30 years. 1. 1 becomes 2, 2 becomes 4, 4 becomes 8, right? You get the idea. And we're going to do it under two scenarios, right? So this time I'm going to, I'm going to use GC. Is the person that uses his personal money and Pablo uses his IRA. Right. And then inside the IRA will go down to the Roth. Right. So GC takes a buck. He puts it in the same exact deal. It earns another buck. Right. And he pays 25 percent tax because he owns it in his personal account. So now he's got 1. 75, it doubles to 3. 50, he pays 25 percent tax, and then invest it again. And he does that for 30 years. And 30 years from now, he's on the Not Your Average Investor podcast, and he is sitting here talking, and he is bragging to everybody
Pablo Gonzalez:At that point, it'll be the biggest podcast in the world,
Jason Debono:just FYI. So yeah, to the, the millions, possibly billions at that point of listeners, he is saying, guys, I turned a dollar into 78, 000 bucks and everybody's like, Oh my God, holy shit. That's incredible. This guy just turned a buck into 78 grand, right? And in Greg's eyes and most of our eyes, because we don't know how the wealthy live, think and operate, we're like, whoo, who nailed it? Pablo takes the same dollar. Puts it in the same investment, no more risk, no less risk, no more savings, right? But he says, you know what? I'm going to use my IRA. 30 years from now, he's on the show. And he's like, Greg, I let you have your moment in time. Ha ha, nice work. Your 78 grand is good. But because I didn't pay that 25 percent tax every year, I've got 1, 058, 000 grand. And everybody, right, is screaming from the mountaintops. Pablo, the man, the myth, the legend. The problem is When Pablo put that dollar in, he cheaped out on the, on the tax, which is 25%, which is a quarter. And he put it into a pre tax because he thought I'll just pay the tax later when I'm in the lower tax rate. And so Pablo's right. He's now in the 15%. Tax rate and he owes tax on 1, 000, 058 grand or about 165, 000. Good job, Pablo. But now you've got about 900 grand. So 900 grand Trump 78 grand, right? Here comes Jason. And Jason says, Pablo, I'm proud of you, man, but let me just tell you what I did just a little differently. I took the same dollar. I put it into the same exact investment for 30 years. But I said, here's my quarter up front and I have the same 1, 000, 058 bucks, but I don't know a lick of tax on it because it's in a Roth. You can see how easy it is to feel like you're being successful while still missing out on major opportunities. And so I, I paint that picture because it's been painted for me many times in my career here at NewView, but it's so, it, that we tend to ignore the taxes and that tax tale is actually what's wagging the dog. Right? Because Greg's a great investor. He doubled his money every year for 30 years. Pablo's a great investor. He doubled his money every year for 30 years. Jason's a great investor. He doubled his money every year for 30 years. We all did the same thing, but the end result is significantly different between each of us because of a one time tax decision that we made or didn't make. So let that sink in, in the grand scheme of how we evaluate our building wealth and financial health, because the investments are critical. But just as critical as the tax decisions that we make. And if I were to say, Pablo, knowing what you know now, would you rather have kept the 150, 000 and went back and paid the quarter when you put the buck in the account? It's an extreme example, but the answer is, oh my gosh, of course. I feel
Pablo Gonzalez:like we can just end the show right there. Yeah, we can just end the show right there. Greg. I'm sorry you lost. Jason, I'm happy to be co champion with you. And, uh, really, really good illustration. Let's keep, let's keep jamming through something. That was amazing. All right. Vince Alejandre. Vince, good to have you here, man. I hope you make a habit out of coming. He asks, can I use the self directed 401k to loan for his first house if I put the 401k into a trust where I am the trustee?
Jason Debono:Does that make sense? Yeah, let me tackle that at a high level disclaimer. I am not an accountant and I am not an attorney. So let's make sure that that's clear. The short answer is yes. What people want, I think what the intent of the question, and Vince, you know, correct us via chat if we're missing the mark. If you have a retirement account, 401k IRA, and assuming you can self direct either one, right? That decision is already been clear. If you instead of owning the real estate directly in the IRA, if you instead want the IRA to own the trust, and then the trust to own the real estate, and maybe you're doing that for anonymity, going back to Greg's point around, you know, putting a bunch of family members with small balances account. Maybe that's the purpose of the entity. If any of those things are true, then the answer is yes, you Can do that. As always, you got to make sure that the behavior is always above board, that the the record keeping of the money in the trust is clearly split between the right parties. Because the act of doing that will not get you in trouble doing it, but doing it wrong will get you in trouble. So just, just know the answer is yes, but, but definitely some boundaries to follow.
Pablo Gonzalez:Got any put my son's first house was his clarification.
Jason Debono:Got it. Okay. Got it. So no, but let me pause there. Cause that, that's its own wrinkle. You cannot use your retirement money in any way to invest with. Directly or indirectly, anyone the IRS considers disqualified, you, your spouse, your parents and grandparents, your children, in this case, son and grandchildren, and the spouses and businesses of those parties, the IRS says, if you're going to have it in an IRA and get all the tax advantages, You can't have your cake and eat it too. You got to invest arm's length passively, right? If you want to withdraw it, going back to that question, take it out, pay the tax, pay the penalty. You can do whatever you want with the money, but it's no longer under the veil of an IRA. Remya
Pablo Gonzalez:Warrior has a question. Remya, welcome to the show. I hope you, uh, come back and hang out with us some more. Does the rent collected from the property go right into the retirement account? If so, can you take out all the expenses that's needed to run the place from
Jason Debono:that account? You sure can. Yeah, go ahead, Greg. Yeah, I'll jump into that
Gregg Cohen:one since it's more on the blocking and tackling on the real estate side. It's an important point that you're making. You have to think about your rental property investment in your retirement account as a separate entity is a separate investment than what you are doing with your non retirement account portfolio. And so, yes, your property in your retirement account, all the rental income, the net rental income goes into that retirement account. Any expenses for things like property taxes, maintenance costs, you name it, any expense must come from that retirement account. You cannot pay for it personally. And so that's where the planning component of this is really critical. Before anybody goes from this, uh, session today with Jason, me, Pablo, uh, before you take any action, Sit down with my team or a team to help plan this for you because understanding reserve amounts in your retirement accounts when you go forward and put a plan in place like this is critical to make sure you're not in this position where if you have. a month or two of vacancy for your property or properties in your retirement account that you don't have the funds to take care of a rainy day item. We can, you cannot have that. That can be a very big problem for you. So of course, you know, chat with my team. We have the experience to make sure that. You won't set yourself up for that situation. You can go to chat with JWB. com.
Pablo Gonzalez:Awesome. Thanks GC. says Tyo in the Q and a, I have to assume is Tyler Depot. Good to have you back. Ty. I haven't seen you in a while. Can you kindly talk about the penalties of early withdrawal in a 401k versus IRA?
Jason Debono:Sure. Let me start by saying don't do it. Scrape the couch cushions for change before you take out of your retirement accounts because it's not the penalty of taking it out that's going to burn. Believe me, that one will sting. It's the opportunity cost of that money no longer growing tax advantage that will hurt you more. So, but I understand the intent of the question and emergencies happen and at times we've got to go grab money. In an IRA, you can withdraw money and actually you. Not have to withhold, right? So the penalty is 10 percent for early withdrawals out of any retirement account, traditional Roth, or 401k. With a Roth, you actually have a little access to money. Without potential penalty, but that's a little more complex, but just another feather in the cap for the Roth, which, you know, I'm always looking for on the IRA side. It's 10 percent tax or sorry, 10 percent penalty. There's no withholding, right? You can wave out of withholding in a 401k. If you go to withdraw money, the penalty is the same. It's 10 percent but there's a mandatory 20 percent withholding. So you'll square that up in April when you file your taxes, but so if you took 100 grand out of an IRA, right? You only have a 10 percent penalty. If you took 100 grand out of a 401k, you have the same 10 percent penalty and the custodian is going to withhold 20 percent automatically. So you're only going to see 80, in essence, 80, 000 bucks, not the 100. So there's no additional penalties. It's just that withholding that trips people up, makes it feel like it costs more. You just basically prepay in a 401k where you pay in April in an IRA. Yeah, and I want to,
Gregg Cohen:I think that is really great advice. And I also want to, people think about other ways to access money in their 401k. without taking penalties. We talk a lot with our clients about a 401k loan. And so for Ty's question here, if Ty's asking about how to get access to the money in his 401k, a 401k loan can be a great opportunity. And what a 401k loan is, is a loan against the, you know, the, uh, the dollars that you have in your 401k. When you take a 401k loan you have access to the dollars. You can take a loan for up to 50, 000. and you do not incur any early withdrawal penalties. And what it does is it frees up capital for you to make a wise investment decision that is not subject to the same restrictions that the rest of your 401k is. So if you are somebody who is saying, well I sat down and I looked where I have my financial portfolio today and I just realized that it is 100 percent in stocks and I don't like that. A 401k loan is something that you can take out, pull out up to 50, 000 and then repurpose that to another asset that you think is better suited for you and for your financial goals. Like real estate. So again, as I keep reiterating this, this thing that was taught to me early on 18 years ago when I started to invest and I absolutely believe it, which is if you find the right team and the right investment, finding the money is the easiest part. This 401k loan is another tool for you. You may already have money sitting inside your 401k. That literally, within a few clicks, you could have access to, and you might have 50, 000 of your funding solved. Literally by the end of this, this show right here today. So for those who are saying, I want to get started in buying my first rental property, but I don't have the funds. Write down these tips that Jason and myself are giving you today. Write down 401k loan. Write down HSA. Your Roth. Right? Your IRA, self directed, partnering with other friends or family members. All of these things will help you get started and overcome that money challenge that many people say out there is holding them back. But in reality, when you're surrounded by people who have done this before, you quickly realize that that's the easiest part.
Jason Debono:Yeah, quick confession, Greg. In 2014, I was buying a new house and I was looking for the money because I was stretching the budget. 2014 prices were super low. You could buy a ton of house, right? And in a house I thought I could never afford, I took a 401k loan to actually make sure I had enough money to meet the down payment requirements to buy it. And that house has since appreciated substantially. I've sold it and moved to another house, but I took the entire proceed from sale. I paid the small little loan off, had a ton of money left over and put it down on my next house. And, you know, that was a personal deal, so I couldn't use my IRA to buy it directly because I lived in it. But it's a prime example, whether it's an investment primary residence, like these are strategies. And if the only money in your 401k is locked up, right. And you don't love the investment choices, take it out and put it to better work. So I love that strategy. I, I, I am a, not just a, uh, this spokesperson, but I'm also a member too. Is that the old hair club for men, approach, but it was, it really was, it's a great strategy and you gotta be smart. You got to understand what it means. You got to make sure you're prepared to repay the loan. but one thing that I think that's so cool about your strategy, Greg, is that not only are you doing that, you're going to see your paycheck go down a little bit, right, because you're paying that loan off, but it's almost like you're financing your investments while you're already financing your investments. And I can tell you every single person on this call, if you're at a point where you're thinking about buying real estate, could live without a couple hundred bucks in your paycheck. Right? It's just going to keep you from going to Starbucks or hitting Uber Eats once or twice. But the wealth that you will build in that asset going to be game changer.
Gregg Cohen:And that's a really good point. The other point is when I sit down with clients and my team sits down with our clients and we say, is this the right thing for you? And it's the right thing to do the 401k loan. They say, Oh, you know what? Well, I already had like 200 bucks a month or 500 bucks a month or whatever that was on auto savings going into my Schwab account. They're, they're already doing this for many people. You're already transferring money over. And so at the end of the day, if you take a step back and you think, okay, well, is that investment that's through Schwab better for me, or is there an alternative that's better for me? You find out that probably your lifestyle for many people actually doesn't change. You just have to think a little bit differently.
Pablo Gonzalez:Great advice and I'm just gonna throw out there. We all have great hair on this call So we don't have to worry about the hair club for men stuff guys All right, guys, we're coming up on time I I want to answer a couple more questions And then we're gonna save the rest and see if we can get to it on another show Jason You're gonna I'm sure you're gonna get to answer a lot of these at the summit as well before that anybody that wants to Hit these questions. Just like you have a question that hasn't been answered. You want them answered today go to chat with jwb. com Hop on the call with the team They'll know how to direct you the right way and answer a lot of these a lot of these are very technical Of kind of like I have this much money and should I do this? That's exactly what a chat with jwb. com call is first to find out your priorities And then they steer you in the right direction whether it's to do it not do it do it 401k outside All these different things. Jason, do you want to give a quick how to get in contact with UVU, how to get in contact with you if they want to go direct to you and get their questions answered?
Jason Debono:Yeah, I think the easiest thing is, is to email Jason, just J. S. O. N. at newviewtrust. com with a U. That's the easiest way those emails come in and we can spread those amongst our team, you know, depending on volume and timing. That's the easiest way. J. W. B. also has, you know, contact info and, and reference points into our team here. So if there's anyone that, um, you know, anyone that's going to JWB channel and has IRA questions, they can call us in or, or push over to someone on our sales team. If you do have something that does get pretty complex and maybe warn someone with a little more experience, I'm happy to hop on those calls as well, a little, little tighter scheduling, but, Greg knows how to find me and, and where to find me as well. So, we can go that route where it makes sense too.
Gregg Cohen:quick, just so everybody knows, Jason and I have been friends for forever. I'm a client of NuView. I've been a client of NuView for a very long time. and so I couldn't give a higher recommendation, for NuView, for Jason, for his team. So, if you are thinking about it, definitely reach out to the best of the best, which is the NuView team.
Jason Debono:We appreciate that. There you go. A lot, a lot of love. A GC endorsement. We'll take that.
Pablo Gonzalez:Yeah,
Gregg Cohen:Listen, I'm I'm the third best investor on the call, though, so I mean, I don't know if that's worth much. So
Jason Debono:no, and Greg, I do want to correct you. You're actually we're all equal parts investors because we all made the same investment. You're the slowest in understanding the tax opportunities associated with the investments, but. But we're all equal parts
Pablo Gonzalez:investors. Yeah, a good investor, just a little more poorer than me and Jason. No big deal. Magic Garcia, let's, let's knock a couple of these out. Magic Garcia asks, I was told by Vanguard that I can roll over my 401k to a traditional IRA at 59 and a half old to avoid a 10 percent penalty. So can I move that money to a self directed account and do investments?
Jason Debono:Yes, although I'm not sure what Vanguard, there may be some wires crossed in communication. The rolling over to an IRA is not a penalty based transaction, no matter what your age is. So what does happen, and maybe what's being brought up is, is most 401ks, when you reach retirement plan age, which is usually 55 or 59 and a half, you can roll over to an IRA. Even if you're actively employed. So there are some in service withdrawal provisions that kick in, but the 10 percent penalty is only if you withdraw into your personal name. If you move from 401k to IRA, there's no age restriction on the avoidance of the penalty because there's no penalty to do a rollover.
Pablo Gonzalez:Awesome. And last question that is, that feels like a quick answer. Cheryl McKinnell, Cheryl, good to have you here. Hope you make it a habit. What about an inherited IRA? Where are, where a required withdrawal is. required at the end of every year because of the age of the person I inherited from. Anything different there?
Jason Debono:Yeah, quick, quick primer on inherited IRAs. The rules have changed with the secure act and secure act 2. 0. Historically you had, and it depends on the age of, of the original IRA owner. So there's a little bit of stuff at play. What, what Cheryl's referencing here is that she's got an inherited IRA and she has to withdraw money every year, whether that's withdrawing because it's inherited or you're over 72 and you have to take withdrawals. It works the same. Yes, you can self direct the account. You just have to be more cognizant to ensure that there's cash liquidity created every year to meet the distribution. So if you've got to take out eight grand this year, you don't want to be in a position where you, we don't have a grand of cash last piece on that. And that gets in a little bit more of a complex scenario. There you go. There's also a little bit of a safety net. So Cheryl, let's say you buy a property and let's just say that over time, you got to meet a withdrawal, but you don't have the cash, right? For whatever the reason is, you can actually withdraw part of the property. Right. And we can help you do that. So it's a little bit of a way to say, Hey, there's a safety net to backstop. You don't want to do it by design, but you certainly can do it by accident. And there's some ways that we can look at that, but whether you're in required minimum distribution age on your own, or whether you've inherited account that was in required minimum distribution age, and you've got those mandatory distributions, they rule still apply the same. You can still self direct, but yeah, we just got to think about it a little different from a liquidity standpoint.
Pablo Gonzalez:All right. Good stuff. Jason, I don't want to keep you much longer. We're are really already over time a little bit, man. Thank you for staying the extra time. I think this was great. We had over 90 people on this thing. Tons of thank yous in the chat. You always bring a lot of great value. This is always a subject that is hard to understand, but you make it, you make it really easy. And I like your takes. I like your, I like your spicy takes and your ability to engage them, man. So thanks for coming by, GC. You got any, any words for Jason before, before we
Gregg Cohen:tease the next show? I'll tell you what you guys came with great questions and I am so happy that Jason's here because, he's a great resource and, you know, there's nothing like the network that we have, so. Jason, I'm really, really, really glad you're going to be there at the summit, because I know we're going to get a lot of good questions like this, and there's no better opportunity than people getting to meet you, shake your hand, get to get to know you a little bit, because you're truly doing great
Jason Debono:things over there at NewView. Well, I appreciate that, and thank you guys for having me, and I echo the sentiments, Greg. The questions were fantastic. You're, you're, you're a very well heeled group. You're, you're ahead of most groups. You're in the right community doing the right thing. So, yeah. Keep keep thirsty for knowledge and we'll all share it where we can. Thanks again. And see you guys at the summit.
Pablo Gonzalez:Yeah. See you all at the summit. And, on Thursday, GC and I are going to be back. We're talking about the fact that rents have gone up 27 percent since 2020. Will it continue? And just as importantly, does it have to hurt the community for rents to go up? I think that we're going to talk about ways that. You know, we can continue this rent increase and everybody can win. And just the views on how rents going up in the future will affect your investment will affect having cash tomorrow when you need it, which is what we're all investing here in the long run. So we hope to see you on Thursday. And, from now until then, if you want answers to this Q and a. Go to chat with JWB. com book a call. You get all the answers you need. If you want to talk to Jason directly, shoot him an email at Jason at new view trust. com. And, beyond that, any particular advice you have, GC, don't
Gregg Cohen:be average.
Pablo Gonzalez:See you all next
Jason Debono:week. See ya.