Not Your Average Investor Show
Not Your Average Investor Show
409 | "What Could Go Wrong?" ROI Killers For Turnkey Rental Investors
Real estate investing has a million risks for active investors, but passive investors only need to understand 3 types of risks: team risk, market risk, and deal risk.
That's why we're diving into each one to arm you with the answer to the number one question turnkey property investors worry about:
"What could go wrong?"
Gregg Cohen, co-founder of JWB Real Estate Capital, and Not Your Average Investor Show host, Pablo Gonzalez, will host a lively discussion that will help you understand:
- Why so many people are asking the wrong questions ahead of their passive investment
- What questions to ask (and what to look for) when presented an investment opportunity
- How to spot a great property management company in 3 steps
- and more!
Don't get caught up in a bad investment. After this call, you'll be able to see problems from a mile away, and skip the headache.
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got a big show today for you. we have had a lot of new interest in rental properties. Go figure. Economy is talking about rates about to drop. Now everybody wants to buy a rental properties and we are seeing that there is a, you know, there's a, there's a misconception and there is fear around return on investment killers. And can you trust these numbers? Can I not trust these numbers? What could go wrong? Essentially. So we put together a show just for you. To talk about the top three ROI killers of what could go wrong when investing in rental properties for you today. Welcome everybody to the weekly edition of the Not Your Average Investor show. We're officially live on YouTube again. I'm your host, Pablo Gonzalez, me, as always in studio, the man that I affectionately like to call GC because of his genius concepts, because he knows how to generate cashflow. Cause he's a great co host. And because his name is Greg Cohen, say hello, Greg. Hello, everybody. Fantastic to be with you today. It is fantastic to be here today. I'd say, you know what, before the, before the roll call, before all the stuff GC, I think everybody is curious. There is a hurricane above us these days right now in Jacksonville. I texted you last night. I was like, Hey man, is a JWB open tomorrow? Kind of joking around. didn't really feel it, man. Like I honestly, for me, the biggest disruption has been, it's raining just enough to make walking my dog being difficult, but not enough to the point where I actually feel like it's raining and I'm a little bit upset about it. Agreed. That being said, I know that Denny Davis posted about our WhatsApp chat about, like, hurricane preparedness and the messages that, JWB sent out, but why don't you give everybody an update on JWB status with the hurricane today?
Gregg Cohen:Absolutely. And this is a great opportunity to remind all of you, as a JWB clients or those who are investing in rental properties that you have to have a plan and it needs to start well beyond, you know, the, the weather channel and Jim Cantore start telling you that, you know, a hurricane or a tropical storm is coming. JWB prepares has prepared years and years in advance. We have a, severe weather and hurricane preparedness. plan, which is, you know, relatively smooth for us to activate at this point. So that's what we did late last week. If you're a JWB client, you got an email letting you know, the steps that we take to make sure that your residents are taken care of. And then secondarily, your property is taken care of. And we always prepare for the worst and we hope for the best. And just like you mentioned here we have about, you know, the best scenario here in Jacksonville. we had You know, some rain that continued throughout the day yesterday. We had some winds. You know, I was looking outside and seeing the wind gusts that would happen every once in a while. Some debris
Pablo Gonzalez:on the street, right? Like there's definitely a little bit of like a fallen branch here or there and stuff like that.
Gregg Cohen:There you go. There you go. So, but we do manage 6, 000 homes. So we have a large level of responsibility for our residents to make sure they're taken care of. And of course, to make sure your property is taken care of. Luckily we're prepared. So I just wanted to walk you through some of the things that we have already done to make sure that everybody is taken care of. First off, JWB offices are open today, as you know, and they were open yesterday as well. We did let our team go home a little bit early just to make sure that the drive home was safe for everybody. Operations are as normal at JWB, but we do some extra things. Of course, in times like this, we have our emergency line available for all of our residents. We had that open late last night as well. In fact, in our Tuesday morning meeting a teammate of ours was calling out the four or five teammates who were manning the emergency line late last night to make sure that our residents were taken care of. If there were any issues, we've already mobilized all of our contractors. They are on standby throughout the week. J. W. B. Clients and residents are the number one priority, which means that if there is a roof issue, if there is a tree issue, J. W. B. Clients are taken care of first and for the right rate, there's no increasing the rate, which is unfortunately pretty common in situations like this when there's a storm, but not for J. W. B. Clients. We've already talked to the residents. We've encouraged them to be proactive before the storm hit to make sure that you removed any loose debris or any loose items from the exterior of the homes. And again, this is, this is normal protocol. This is normal procedure. We have meetings months in advance of hurricane season to make sure that when this happens, it's, you know, I'll call it relatively smooth sailing at JWB. And so that's kind of where we're at right now. We're very happy to report that residents are safe. Largely property is safe. I'm happy to share some of the maintenance call volume with you as those numbers come in. Maybe I'll start to try to put that together this week and maybe share that with you next week, but feel pretty good about the situation overall.
Pablo Gonzalez:Love it. We, uh, like to start with that because we know during hurricane stuff, there's a, we, we get members of our community that show up just for the hurricane stuff, right? So want to let you know that all is well over here with JWB and that means that we can kick it off to our usual show, which starts with what GC? The roll call, baby. We got Joanna kicking us off in the chat, our community manager, saying hello to everybody. We got the MVP in the house, Mr. Liebich. You may have heard of him. We got our usual leadoff hitter batting second today, John Henning. We got the patron Santorios from Northern Virginia, Michael Santorio, the fairy godmother of the Not Your Average Restaurant community, Miss Jen Filson. Greetings from Monterey, California. We got the early bird saying he's missed us all back and he's checking in. I've missed you too, Mr. Dean Curry. It hasn't been the same without you. been, Dean Curry? Is Columbus, Columbus keeping you busy over there? We got the We got the Bellagrave. Good morning from the annoyingly epigrammatic mountains of Colorado, he says. Uh, we've got the mystery man in the house, Denny Davies, Denny Davies in the house. We've got the Shah man, Nadine Shah. Good morning. Good afternoon. From the West coast. We got Reggie Fonso. That doesn't really leave you anything to say about him, huh? I just laugh every time. He gets so into that one. I love, I love, I love a French accent. We've got the maven from the mountains of Denver. Leslie Wilson. We've got the ringmaster. Andrew Barnhill. We've got Charity Graham checking
Gregg Cohen:in. Welcome back, Charity. Good to have you. Charity might be on the doorstep of a nickname, by the way. She should be on the doorstep of a nickname. But it has to be initiated by you, Charity. All right. Maybe. So let us know nicknames that you may have picked up over your life. Yeah. And then, you know, or
Pablo Gonzalez:just leave it on a big mental burden on your boy over here. Or it just might take a while. It might take a while. We got Laura Colby. Who's also close to a nickname too, from Washington state. Laura has been around for a minute, Laura. Good to have you back. We got our regulars, Gary and Rosalind Riley from Marietta, California. We regard you, who else we got in here? We got Mark Norman in the house from SoCal. Mark is back. Good to have you, Mark. Who else we got out here? I know that Jen is heading out to Southern California at some point soon. I know that much. She's been touting it. So Jen, let, let Mark know when you're going to be there. We got sort of Kevin O'Brien. From Rhode Island. Looking forward to today's show. Are we Kevin?
Gregg Cohen:That's new for you, huh? That's new. Yeah. Well, Kevin's been here many times, but I've never heard you refer to him in your, you know, English accent. I like it. Good to have you, Kevin.
Pablo Gonzalez:Yeah, I'm leaning into, you know, I think it's the Olympics. Has me all, you know, you are very wealthy, wealthy
Gregg Cohen:today.
Pablo Gonzalez:Vic Marick in the house from Virginia Vic. Welcome back friend. Yeah, long time client. many times showing up here. Good to have you. We got the first family in the house. Hey, shark and matriarch, Ken and Carolyn Melin, who salute you. Who else we got in here? We got the, the Grand Amigo. Bill Shields, as they say. As they say. Good to have you, Bill Shields, as always. We got Eddie Harris. From hot Atlanta. Eddie, good to have you here. Susan Parker in the house, saying hello to everybody. Good to have you, Susan. She came to the summit, I remember Susan. I remember Susan. We got our favorite names to renounce, Aaron O'Neill. Aaron, good to have you in here. We got right along Raj in the house. He hasn't been here for a minute. All right. What a show. Yeah. Yeah. Raj Bantu riding along my friend. Good to have you. Maurice Irons from Colorado. Is that a new name? New name. New name. All right. Maurice. Welcome. Welcome to the show. We got a little Colorado community out there. So, you know, not, not a, not a bad place for you to be. Talk to people here in the chat, get to know the Maurice. We got plenty of folks out there. We got our favorite smile from the Pacific Northwest.
Gregg Cohen:Pamela Myers.
Pablo Gonzalez:Of course, everybody knows that. Pamela, good to have you back. Let's kick this off, GC, with a wait a minute.
Gregg Cohen:We got some breaking
Pablo Gonzalez:news.
Gregg Cohen:What's going on? Breaking news. Breaking news. Guys, I just wanted to share some exciting things. We talked a lot about interest rates. Over the course of the last few months and how important it was to take action and buy rental properties before interest rates come down. And then the marketing and sales team at JWB said, what can we do about it? And we came up with a way to be able to lock in your interest rate tomorrow today, meaning lock in your rate today with super low interest rates. And we did this through a forward commitment and we ran an incentive. In July. And guess what? It worked, guys. Yeah. We were able to knock down your interest rates three quarters of a point for those folks who put properties under contract in July. We had our best sales month of the entire year. And we're super excited because Largely folks that listen to the show. That's right. Oh, geez. I think 60 or 70 percent of those sales came from folks that listened to the show. In the last 30 days. So thank you to all of you for being here. Thank you for listening. You all are doing wonderful things for your portfolio and for your financial wealth. You're making decisions today that are not average, right? You're buying right now based on information that the rest of the world says might not be, doesn't make sense to them, but you're going to see how your returns benefit and the overall financial health benefits. by making these decisions. So congratulations to all of you who put properties under contract. The downside was we had a lot of folks that were really close to being able to take advantage of that incentive. It takes two to three weeks to be a new client to come on board. And we're just simply not going to rush that just to, to, you know, force an incentive. So we did something about it. As you would imagine JWB has decided and what we did actually is we partnered with this lending institution and we said that we had a really great response. Let's go ahead and extend it a little bit, but it's not based on time. It's based on the number of contracts that we're able to secure. So what we did is we Secured the next 20 contracts we'll be able to take advantage of that same incentive. So if you were on the doorstep and you weren't able to take advantage of that incentive, you can now it's for the next 20 contracts that our clients put under, under contract. And it's also available to new clients as well. I super, I really want to be sensitive to those folks. If you're a current client, You can put properties under contract with JWB within a couple of days. But again, if you're, you're a new client, it does take some time. So long story short, we've extended this. We've gone ahead and secured an additional 20 contracts that you can take advantage of. And what JWB is going to do is to buy down your interest rate. So you get to buy those assets today. You get to buy it at tomorrow's interest rate, meaning your interest rates are going to be in the, call it maybe the low fives to mid fives. And you're going to benefit because when interest rates go down, what happens, Pablo?
Pablo Gonzalez:Property values go up. The latent demand sitting on the sideline, the average investor is now like, Ooh, I want in. Right? So the whole point that we've been talking about over the last six months or so is this idea that with that window down the corner, it's about to happen. We're here, you know, over the weekend, we've heard some real signs of like, Hey, our rates going to come down sooner than we even thought, right? So we fully expect rates to come down soon, prices to go up. We want our insiders here to be able to lock in that equity that's going to happen but not just lock it in right now and then refinance later. You've gone the extra step of taking that equity. Taking even that part of it off the table, right? Being able to lock in tomorrow's interest rates today. So you get both the interest rate that you would have been, that you'd be getting after they come down. Plus the equity tied in best of both worlds.
Gregg Cohen:It really is a special opportunity. So be one of the next 20 contracts, then it's done.
Pablo Gonzalez:Yeah. So. Just kind of wanted to point out real quick so we can get onto our show. This is the beauty of vertical integration, right? Like this idea of you have these deep relationships with your mortgage providers. You have deep relationships with our community and our members and all these other service providers that you were able to like purchase a Starbucks card of 20 mortgages. Like that's not normal.
Gregg Cohen:Right. Yeah. That's what actually happens is we go ahead and we purchase and secure these contracts in advance, knowing that. client demand will of course absorb it. So, it's certainly a unique partnership that we're able to have with this lending institution to make it happen. And I'm really excited for those that get to take advantage of it.
Pablo Gonzalez:Right on, man. So for those of you that want to take advantage of it, chat with JWB. com, pick out a time, go talk, shoot an email to info at JWB company, JWB real estate. First time doing this, I just, I just blacked out
Gregg Cohen:info at jwbcompanies. com
Pablo Gonzalez:info at jwbcompanies. com or just let Joanna in the chat know when she'll hook it up. So that being said, let's move on to the show. GC now where that was a lot of announcements before we got started. This idea of we just had a massive volume of people wanting to close on properties has given us this insight of like, Hey, what are, what are people worried about? Right? Like, why don't we make a show about, um, making it easy for you. And we put together this little program here of kind of like the biggest ROI killers. We talk often the first ROI killer. Is what we like to call the wrong order of operations. Right? So we, we know if you're following along here, that real estate rental property, investing pays five ways, right? You got cashflow, You get home price appreciation, you get the tax savings, you get the debt pay down and you get the inflation hedging and we know that all of those get better with time. And another thing that we know is that when we look at these, when we, when we take the pie graphs of like the distribution of wealth that comes from properties that we do over and over again on this show, you realize that. For investors, somewhere between 50 and 70 percent of the total return, the total wealth created is going to come from home price appreciation, which is what happens over time. And because of that, the number one thing that I think people mess up is The order of operation, folks take a lot of time looking for a property. And let's say they spend 90, 95 percent of that time. The market of where that property is may, you know, may be a consideration just because it's your backyard, or it may just be, that's the place where someone told you that they can get you a property or whatever else it is, but that's usually secondary. You can And tertiary, once you lock in this property in this market, people are like, Oh, let me go to, let me Google who are the five best property management companies in that area and go, you know, spend 5 percent of their time at most there. We're saying that if you're going to take into account the five profit centers and the Pac Man principle that we like to call of home price appreciation being the best return, then the order of operations is wrong. You should spend the majority of your time trying to figure out where the best teams that can have you right along as long as possible, spend time in this property without you know, without having to doubt yourself, without having a bad time, help you through the tough times of rental property, investing, make sure that you count on them. Once you know where you have those, then you start to analyze the markets for, do they have the right dynamics for you? And then the property will come to you. How'd I do there?
Gregg Cohen:Did a pretty good job there. Yeah. Pretty good job. Yeah. I just, so it. Long story short, most people go property, market, team in their decision making. And they don't place a lot of value on the team. They treat it more like a commodity. And if you think about the reasons why most people don't invest in real estate, It's because they're concerned about the experience of investing in real estate. Well, guess what? The team is the most important driver of your experience. The team controls the experience. So, if we have this beautiful asset class of rental properties, investing, We know that people can drive wealth through it. It's been documented over decades and decades and decades. And we know that the problem is the experience. Somebody doesn't want to get late night phone calls. They don't want to have big cashflow swings. Well, we need to think about changing the order of operations. And so our philosophy here at JWB and what our clients ascribe to is. They think of the team as the most important part of the decision, and they do their due diligence on the team once they find a team that is worthy of being a good steward of their funds, then they go and say, Okay, well, where's that team that I'm buying into? Where does that team operate? And they go and they find the market that team operates in. And then they do their due diligence on the market and the team helps them. Do the due diligence on the market. And if you do those two factors in that order, then property selection is easy and enjoyable. So you got to flip it on its head. The first problem with rental property investing is that people get that order of operations incorrect.
Pablo Gonzalez:You know, you don't even have to take our word for it. You can take McKinsey's word for it. We just did. That's true. We just did a show last week talking about how the real estate edge, investing edge has changed. The success around real estate investing has gone from being property and location focused to experience focused, right? And it really just backs up everything that we are saying everything you've been saying to me since day one is The statistics show that most americans believe that the number one thing they can invest in to change their life is real estate It's not a matter of like belief in whether or not real estate provides great things but yet the statistics show that it's not the top three things that people hold in their investing portfolios. It's like four, right? Or it might be three. I don't know if I'm doing Pablo math here, but the reason is they associate real estate with a bad experience, whether it's the active part of like, man, I'm just like myself included, right? I'm too intimidated to just like, go find a property, fix it up myself get all the contractors, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I'm really, really intimidated by the idea of just like holding onto it. Having these late night phone calls, having somebody tell me that their toilet is broken and I got to figure it out. Those kinds of things. And when you talk to most people, they'll, they'll tell you that like, you can't really trust every property management company. So it's like the experience is what keeps them on the sideline. So that being said, this idea of optimizing for experience, according to the McKinsey study means you need to change your order of operations team. First market next. Property last, right? 100%. Okay. So that's number one, number two. So given that right now, we're going to talk about how do we pass, how do we, how do we pass the snuff test and all these different things, right? Let's talk about the, the things that you can prevent in ROI killers when you're selecting the team first, then we'll talk about like things you want to talk about when you're selecting the market. And then we'll talk about. Things of how, when you're selecting the property, right? So do you see, as you know, I've been teaching this class with the real success, with the real success folks that we're going to go see in LA now in a couple of weeks, by the way, Reggie, if you want to come by, I would love to see you, man, or Jen, if you're going to be down there, but Southern California, I'm going to be there end of August. And I've coined three tests of, of the way that you can really select team people phone call test. Tech test. and metrics test. Love that. Right. Phone call test, GCN. These are, these are things that I've learned from you. It's this idea that on the phone, the moment that you first interact with somebody, you can tell if they're a legit business or they're a fly by night business.
Gregg Cohen:Most of the time. Yeah. What do you
Pablo Gonzalez:think when I say that?
Gregg Cohen:Yeah. A hundred percent. I mean, I, I, I know how most property management organizations are Constructed built and how they operate. And most of the time when you call your property manager, they're like on the road with like their laptop open driving. And they've on one hand, they're talking to a resident. On the other hand, they're talking to you as the investor. And with their feet, they're driving in with their other foot. They're tapping on their laptop. I mean, most property management companies are very small organizations, only a few people. And those few people wear every single hat. So, I like the phone call test, number one, to see if they pick up the phone call.
Pablo Gonzalez:Yep.
Gregg Cohen:And then number two, what's the nature of the conversation? Because, you know, unfortunately, if you're working with a property manager who wears all of these different hats they're probably way overloaded. They're probably not thinking. for the resident and for the investor and for the organization to make sure that all three can win long term. It's and where that translates to as a poor experience at somewhere down the line, maybe they don't pick up your phone call, or maybe they don't have the right answer for you. And maybe it takes forever to get some action taken. You can usually tell by those first drink, first phone calls.
Pablo Gonzalez:Yeah, you've, you've driven home the point for me that it's like, you want to be working with a property management company, not a property management amateur, not a property management side hustle. You want to, you want to, you know, be, be certain. If you're going to, you know, you, you buy the property once and then you got to hold this thing for 30 years. Right. Or you want to, you want to hold it for 10, 20, 30
Gregg Cohen:years. Right. That's where you win the most for sure.
Pablo Gonzalez:That's where you win the most. Right. So like on a phone call, number one, the way that I think of it is you're really checking to see if this is a company or this is a person.
Gregg Cohen:I
Pablo Gonzalez:think that becomes pretty clear. If someone's, you know, Picking up the phone while they got their kids in the car or they're on the way to like do groceries or whatever Pretty clear that you're dealing with a person not a company Second when when they pick up the phone call back to your point. Are there a property manager? That's overwhelmed or they zoned in on this thing. Mm hmm. Does the phone call feel Like you just started a process or does the phone call feel like someone just picked up the phone?
Gregg Cohen:You know that
Pablo Gonzalez:right off the bat, right? You know that right off the bat, right? They, you can tell that they're walking you through something that they've done a bunch that they've rehearsed, right? Like this is going to, this is going to tie into the metrics testing a little bit later, but like, is the person, somebody that's trained to onboard you, or is this the person that's like trained to do a thousand things and they're not really particularly good at the thing that they're doing right there, you can kind of tell. You can tell.
Gregg Cohen:Yeah, absolutely.
Pablo Gonzalez:Yeah. So,
Gregg Cohen:so, and really it goes into like a division of labor really helps, right? The, you know, most property management companies are very small. It's only a small number of people, so they don't have the opportunity to have one person or one team of people focus on you know, rent collection and one focus on maintenance servicing and one focus on renewals. But, you know, the specialization and division of labor and really keeping an intense focus on serving that unique problem really helps the overall deliverability of the service, which creates a better experience for you. Most property management companies just aren't, they aren't, they can't do that. They don't manage enough properties to have enough headcount to be able to do that. And so they're forced to have many, many hats, manage many, many departments at one time and investors, you know, ultimately have a poor experience and it keeps them from, from doing this. The other thing I wanted to point out is, you know, before, before we go there, I just want to,
Pablo Gonzalez:you know, we're going to talk about a little bit more when we get to the metrics test, but you've, you've long told me, Hey, you want to work with a property management company that has like more than 50 employees. Yeah, that's a good point. Right. Just like, just like the scale of what you're talking about, to be able to specialize somebody to be able to, you know, to have different members of the team with different specializations that they can be, that they can be dedicated to providing you the best experience possible is really important. Because if not, then what it looks like, it's like 10 people, Eight of them each have 25, 25 properties. And they're
Gregg Cohen:the
Pablo Gonzalez:baker, the maker, and like, and like the, and the, and the waiter of the pie for all those properties, right? Like, like they're, they're one day, they got a hat of maintenance coordination. Another day they got a hat of leasing another day. They're like telling you what to expect and bringing you on board and selling you a property. And that's just doesn't lead to a great experience when you're so scattered.
Gregg Cohen:Absolutely. So just a few questions to ask to help with the on the phone call test. Right? Number one, make the phone call, see if they pick up or do they, or do they respond very quickly to it? That's a really, really good sign. That's objective. Do they pick up? Great. That's a good sign. Ask them how many employees they have in office. That needs to be a substantial number. I don't know if it's 10, I don't know if it's 20 or 30, but it needs to be a lot more than, you know, five, right? It needs to be because unless they have enough properties that they're servicing, they won't have enough headcount. And then you won't have a good experience if they don't have enough headcount. So second question, how many employees do you have? Most likely the more the better. I would say absolute minimum would be 10. And probably 20 is probably closer to it. And then the third question is, how many rental properties do you yourself own?
Pablo Gonzalez:Yeah.
Gregg Cohen:Because if they don't own a substantial amount of rental properties, they are not going to think like an investor. And there's a lot of ways to do property management services that don't deliver the best risk adjusted return on investment for you as an owner.
Pablo Gonzalez:A. K. A. Have you felt my pain? You felt my pain, right? Have you felt what it's like? Or are you just in it for the bucks? Are you a realtor that's just like trying to sell properties and trying to make it a couple bucks? Or are you trying to make a better experience for people that are like you? Exactly. Love that. That is the phone call test, everybody. If you want to give a shot at the phone call test, Go to chat with JWB. com, book a time to talk with JWB, put them through the test. There we go. How about
Gregg Cohen:that? I love that. Give us a call right now. Give us a call. What's the phone number? 904 677 6777. All right. 904
Pablo Gonzalez:Put
Gregg Cohen:J. W.
Pablo Gonzalez:to the phone call test and see what happens. Real cool question from Charity Graham. I love and respect your focus in one market, Jacksonville, thereby creating and sustaining quality success on your future roadmap. Are you also thinking about maybe other states once J. W. be satisfied with where Jacksonville market is?
Gregg Cohen:Charity, thank you so much for, for that comment. And the answer is no. The answer is no, we are here in Jacksonville because we think it's the best risk adjuster return for you as a client. And because we think we can make the most impact to our community and our residents by being in one market and flat out because it's where we all already are and where our relationships are and the idea of going to another market, you know, flat out just to go and make a buck. To go and do that, try to replicate this in other markets, making the most money is not the most, the biggest priority for me or my business partners. I we've known this for 18 years. We can go to another market. And there's a reason why we're going deeper and deeper in Jacksonville. So, that's why we're here. It's number one, to make sure that we're making an impact on. All we serve so for our clients, it's delivering the best risk adjusted returns and the best experience, but there's so much that we get to do for improving neighborhoods, improving our residents, quality of life and our overall community in Jacksonville. So you're going to see us stay right here.
Pablo Gonzalez:Yeah. It's, similar to the specialization of labor, right? Like, do you want, like, do you want somebody that's completely focused in one market and all these strategic advantages they can bring into one market, or do you want them spread out across multiple markets? Right? A hundred percent. That is a, that is a strategy for you guys. Terry says, copy that. I'm working on building my capital for my first investment with you guys. Love that, Charity. Love that, Charity. Love that. All right. Next test. The tech test. All right. All right. So again, going back to the McKinsey report, I don't have to, I like, I love that we did the show last week, right? Because McKinsey also talked about tech enabled services, right? Can you, you know, if you want a good experience and you want this to happen, we are so used to like all the services, all the things that we need, if we can't manage it completely from our phone, it just kind of sucks, right? Right. So what kind of technology is the, is the. The investing company providing you, I can think of a couple areas where I think technology is particularly important. One is transparency of my costs and transparency of my returns. When my CPA asked me, Hey, what was that expense that you had? Of like, you know, February of last year, you need it for your tax returns. I don't want to make a phone call and wait for you to like look it up and give it back to me. I want to be able to like log in, download it, take a snap, you know, take a phone pic of it, send it to my, send it to my CPA, right? Like if anything, logging onto a computer is friction. But like, you know, the most that you can take away out of that is huge. Is the first kind of like, place where I think of the technology test. What do you think?
Gregg Cohen:It's funny how you just mentioned how much, what, what friction is these days, you know, before back in the day, before you had all this beautiful technology to use, you know, you, we, as customers were okay, giving somebody a call and waiting for them to fax something to us or whatever. Right now, even logging into a computer is is a little bit of friction right now. So, you know, you want to be able to work with somebody who has transparency and access to information when you want it. And they need to be able to deliver that in a, in a portal fashion so that you can log on and see the information that you need at your disposal. Whether that's through the computer or. On your phone, it just needs to be there. So, but what many people don't realize is there's two types of effective management and two types of technology that you really need to have as a successful rental property investor. One is more transactional. So this is what we would call our owner's portal at JWB. This is for more of a transactional basis. So Pablo, you're a client. Let's say that there's a maintenance expense that happens on one of your properties and we, it's below the threshold where we get to make the decision on your behalf, we just go ahead and solve the problem, you get a bill in your owner's portal, it shows up, and when you're reviewing your performance at the end of the month, you look and you see, okay, great, I understand, there was a, you know, 100 charge for this. It's already been taken care of, but you have access to that bill. That type of transparency should be there for your individual properties that you manage. Bar none. Should be able to be accessed for you on demand.
Pablo Gonzalez:That's transactional technology.
Gregg Cohen:That's transactional. And I would say some property management companies have that. Certainly not all. I would say the better majority has, has something like that.
Pablo Gonzalez:Again, you want to, that is in your order of operations. When you're looking around on teams, check.
Gregg Cohen:Yeah. Another great question. Tell me about your, how do I understand the transactions that happen on a monthly basis for my rental properties? Do I have access to that 24 seven? Can I log into a port? Those are great questions. But the next type of tech that really needs to support you is visibility into your overall return on investment. That's what at JWB we call our client ROI report. This is tracking, what is your, is your rental property portfolio actually performing at? What is the rate of return? How much growth have you seen in home price appreciation and your net rental income? Does it match the expectations that you had when you invested in this property early on? So this is the accountability tool for yourself to make sure that you're managing your money effectively compared to your other options of where you could put your money. And then it's the accountability tool for the provider, like a JWB to make sure that we are hitting the expectations. And if you think about it one more degree, I can't imagine doing business with a company that doesn't track this because what does that say about that business? They're not learning. They're not using this amazing resource to learn and iterate and get better and better and better over the, you know, the, the platform of clients that they have. So there's two parts to the tech that you need to require as a rental property investor. There's the transactional debt tech, and then there's the return on investment tech and they're not the same. Very, very, I don't know of another company that provides the, what we provide for the JWB client ROI report. Out there. So, but go ahead and look and but there's some out of the box
Pablo Gonzalez:options, right? Like, if you're in another market, at the very least, they can like, have like some kind of out of the box option or something like that, right?
Gregg Cohen:I, I'd love to hear what people think in the chat. Yeah. Have they done it? You know, because what I, what we often hear is, you know, I, I do this through a mixture of QuickBooks or I use Excel to do this. So people come up with their own internal solutions because. It is really hard to develop what we developed, and it's hard to develop a reporting software that can handle the complexities of single family rental property. How's
Pablo Gonzalez:that one more technology, Greg? And it's internal communications. As a, as a client of JWB, I love the fact that when I get on the phone with somebody from JWB, whether I've spoken to them or not before, they know the history of my property. They know the history of my conversations with JWB. They know when my wife and I have been like, hey guys, I need a little bit more help with this, right? Like, you know, and they're able to reference all of that. I would also ask, how do you communicate internally? Right? Like, if you're just like, I, I hate when I call a company and I've dealt with them in the past before, and they've already done something for me in the past that I didn't like. And then I have to like, catch them up to everything that happened. If I have a portfolio of three to five property, which I have, right? Like the idea of just like having to go back and be like, Oh yeah, you remember like in 2016 when this thing happened on this one property and then blah, blah, blah. For me to have to have that onus would freaking suck, man. So, so like to me asking them, what is your CRM? You know, what does your client management look like? How do you guys share information? Between departments and, and, and like from phone call to phone call. So I don't have to tell you my life story. Every time I get on the phone is major friction. I don't want to deal with it.
Gregg Cohen:I love that point a hundred percent. And you know, most property management companies don't use a very robust and costly platform like Salesforce, like we do. So if they start to put a name out there, like Salesforce internally, you should be saying, okay. They've got enough, they've been in the business long enough that they're willing to make a significant financial investment for a platform like Salesforce. That's a good sign.
Pablo Gonzalez:Yeah.
Gregg Cohen:Versus being a fly by night, accidental property manager. They
Pablo Gonzalez:get customer service experience. Right? Like they get the need for this thing to exist, for this like table to happen and like to be, you know, militant about that. All right. So that was the tech test, right? You got the transaction tech. You got the ROI tech and then you got the internal communications tech that you want to be asking about that will ensure the good experience. And then the final, the final test for me that of, of rental property investors, I call it the metrics test, GC. And for me, when I think about it and I think of it in, you know, past the years that we have been talking about it. I think of it a couple of different ways. I think, number one, what is your data based on number two, how are you, you know, what are the metrics that you, you know, track and, and like in, and really like push.
Gregg Cohen:Mm.
Pablo Gonzalez:And three, how is your team incentivized? Mm-Hmm, So let's start with the first one, right? Like, what is your data? Based on the way that I've been teaching this is that there's three types of data. Mm-Hmm. there is. Search data, right? Am I going into Google and saying, Oh, you know what? The average cost of maintenance in this market is X, right? Or do I have like, magazine that tells me it, am I getting it from a book or, or am I, you know, like just getting off the internet, then there's bought data. Stuff like you guys have with John Burns report, right? Like there are specialists out there that can give you better numbers that you're paying for. The market distillery here is a local one that has really good data that you can buy from them and whatnot. And then there is proprietary data. There is the, hey, this is, like you said, we've been tracking this for 15 years are lived experience. Our performance that we deliver on renewals is this are what we deliver on maintenance rates is that our vacancy rates is this right? Like, is it coming from owned experience? And when I think about this idea that what I want is a good experience. So can I trust these numbers? Or is this going to really like kill my ROI or not? I want someone that's been there, that's tracked it, and that can tell me not this is what most people feel, but this is what we do. This is how we've done it.
Gregg Cohen:Man, I think that is incredibly important. And it's going to be really rare to find that in the property management space. The combination of proprietary data. Most property management companies just don't simply track their activities. They just simply don't track it. So that's going to be one that is going to be really hard for, for you to find, but don't accept anything less. Because what does that communicate to you as a customer? If this company has been doing business for some level of time that has given you comfort, that they're, they're a major, you know, premier property management service provider. So they've crossed that threshold in your mind. But then they don't track, they don't have their own proprietary data to reinforce their decisions. Either they don't run an effective business because they don't understand the value of doing that or they don't care. Or maybe they just weren't that premier property management company that you thought they were. So it's, it is such a, a sign for me when I'm working with an organization that doesn't have their own proprietary data and they should. What does that mean? What does that mean about how their level, their leaders think about how to drive their organization? It's just not very common in property management, but don't settle for less, because it means everything. Again, the way to win in rental property investing is to buy and hold. Think of this as a better retirement strategy. So just like you'll hold on in your 401k. You should think about holding on to your rental properties. Well, if you're going to do that, you're going to be in for the long haul. The way that those leaders think on that property management team is going to drive your experience over the next 10 years, 20 years, maybe 30 years of holding this asset. So asking these questions and meeting these standards, do they have their own proprietary information is really critical and it will save you loads of headaches down the line in your rental property investing career.
Pablo Gonzalez:Okay. So we talked about where you get the data from, right? Is it, is it searched? Is it bought? Is it proprietary? Now there is, What are the metrics that we actually track and track ourselves to in this one? I think there's three levels of metrics. There is the business metrics. I think if you're not a business Like you don't track that but that's really like stakes at the table. Hey, how long have you been in business? What's the typical cost of this or that blah blah blah blah blah, right? Like, you know, how many people have you served these two things then there is Activity based metrics there is hey, how long does it normally take for you? To turn a turn a property, right? Like how long does it take to process a maintenance request, right? Like these are activities that tell you kind of like a certain level of performance based on internal management. And then, to me, the ultimate metrics that I really, really care about are ROI focused metrics, right? These are the ones that are now going a level deeper, that's deeper than just like, Hey, what does my business do? Hey, how is my team performing? to, Hey, how is your returns? How are they performing? Right. And that's when you start looking at things like what's most important for ROI. Oh, occupancy. Right. So this idea of just like, do you know what your average tent, your average occupant stay is? Do you know what your renewal rate is? Do you know how closely you have like given returns of expectation based on the original performer, the type of thing that. You know, for me as a, like, when I'm doing business with someone like JWB, for example, right? Like I, I strive to serve not just you, Greg, but I try to strive to serve your clients. If we can align on that, then that makes sense. For me, a property management company is thinking beyond, Hey, how well am I checking lists and getting this off my table? And they're thinking of how am I driving ROI for my clients?
Gregg Cohen:100%. 100%. I'll give you an example of something that just happened today in our Tuesday morning meeting. A conversation that it's something that you should require from your property management team, but it's very, very rare. So in our meeting today, and this is talking about the long term metrics to making sure that there's success after the, after the purchase of the investment property. JWB has you know, about 130 employees here. all working together. A large percentage of that is on our property management team. And because we're able to specialize in the division of labor that we have with a cohesive message, we're able to focus on certain activities that drive your return on investment and drive resident satisfaction too. One of those is lease
Pablo Gonzalez:renewals,
Gregg Cohen:right? People aren't going to make a decision with their housing to renew unless you really make them happy, right? Well, our leasing team, and this is what just happened in our Tuesday morning meeting, we have a thing we do every Tuesday where anybody on the team can stand up and do what's called a core value call out. And so manager on our property management team stood up today and I was so impressed with her because she was of course, sharing our core values and recognizing others who are doing a great job on our team, but she knew her numbers too. And so this is what you should, this is the type of thought that should come from your property management leaders. She said, now, overall, our goal is to renew 70 percent of leases. Again, most property management companies don't even know that number. They don't track that. But she, of course she knows her number. Our goal is to renew 70 percent of leases that come up for renewal. She said, but you know, Q3 historically is a lower conversion for renewals. If you look historically, and she said. A year ago, it was 67%. The year before, it was 64%, and she rattled off the previous three years. She said, historically, this is what it is. And she said, this makes sense because during quarter three, people are considering moving. It's, school's out. It's, it's more of that nature. We just know historically. And then she said, But, you know, your property management team has been working to overcome those challenges knowing that historically this is a slow quarter. And I'm so proud because we've delivered 76 percent renewals this quarter because of these activities. And, you know, again, 70 percent is the goal. We're at 70%, excuse me, 76 percent in the lowest performing quarter. So all of the things I just talked about right there don't happen with the property manager that you called who picked up the phone on the way to the grocery store who doesn't have a system for bringing you on as a client, who doesn't have division of labor. But that really matters because, you know, one property turn can cost you 6, 000 to 7, 000 of costs. And so that's how a professional property management team affects positive change for you as a client, you know, for our residents, of course, as well, because they're super happy and they get to stay in a home that they love for a few more years.
Pablo Gonzalez:I love that, man. Listen, this This became very clear to me, Greg, as you, as you know, I've been making a bit of my name for myself in like real estate investment tech worlds. I love the voice that you can't find a way when
Gregg Cohen:you, when you talk about yourself.
Pablo Gonzalez:Anyways, one of the clients I'm working with right now, they're a pro they're a, they're a software company. They're working really hard. They gave me the insight of, property managers, kind of the biggest pain point is when it comes to maintenance, the investor, how do they know that the money that they're spending on maintenance is well spent, right? Like not just like how quickly does maintenance happen and how do they know how well spent it is, right? Like, how do they know if somebody called here and they said, I'm hearing something in my toilet, right? There's three options, right? You can have a maintenance. a maintenance deference coordinator who will talk them through, Hey, can you jiggle this? Can you do that?
Gregg Cohen:They
Pablo Gonzalez:can call out a handyman that costs like 30 bucks an hour, or they can call out a plumber that costs 300 bucks an hour. Right. So being able to like, understand it and report it. I was like, you know, we announced how much we defer maintenance on the show all the time. A hundred percent. Right. Like, and that's when it really, really hit me. This idea of just like, is the property manager thinking, about their business? Are they thinking about their team or are they thinking about the investor? And, you know, like understanding the metrics that people track and can report to you. Do you know your metrics and which ones do you know? We'll tell you how that property manager thinks.
Gregg Cohen:It's pretty good. Let me just clarify the terminology here because deferring maintenance means something usually means something bad in the rental property sphere. That means that something's broken and you just push, you know, push it down the line and you don't resolve it. What you're talking about is. The number of maintenance requests, maintenance issues that are solved over the phone
Pablo Gonzalez:over the phone. Yes. Right.
Gregg Cohen:How much is solved over the phone that you didn't have to pay somebody else to go out? Exactly. And that's what we train our team to do. And that's how we save. I think it was 67, 000 last quarter of. Trip fees and things that we didn't have to call our vendor base out to go and fix because our team is trained to solve that over the phone. And guess what? Our team is able to do that because of the division of labor, because we're, you know, been in business for a long time. We can handle the division of labor. We can handle the employee headcount and because they're trained effectively and measured. So there's a measurement for what percentage of work orders are solved over the phone. And our team is incentivized to hit those goals. And ultimately that results in. You know, tens of thousands of dollars of savings for you every quarter,
Pablo Gonzalez:which brings me to the final metrics test, which is talk to me about how your team is measured. And what you are looking for is exactly what you just said. Division of labor, right? Some teams can have, like we talked about, you've got five property managers, each handling 25 homes. And they're just like measured on did somebody not want to punch you in the face today, right? Like then there is. companies that grow and create actual departments. The fact that you have a maintenance coordinator who is measured on how much money is saved by handling maintenance over the phone is an indication of a major specialization of labor. So you want to ask yourself, do you want somebody that's handling, you know, the fewer metrics that I am measured on, the more effective I am going to be. So ask the property management company, Hey, the person handling this, what are they, who's, who's doing what, and who's being measured on what, right? Like if you have a department that's in charge of renewals, a department that's in charge of long term leases, that's measured on, you know, average tenants day, another one, average renewal rate, another one. average maintenance maintenance ticket resolution. So, you know, that that's happening. Another one that's like, how much money are you saving over the phone? Another one that is like, how quickly are you turning around homes and getting them leased? Right? Like the more specialized you have departments or people being measured on one metric, the better is the final metric staff. Absolutely. Okay, cool. So that is the property management team. The most important part of it, the three tests, the phone call tests, the tech tests, and the metrics test. Then we go into. Selecting the market GC. And again, we talk about this Pacman principle, this idea that folks are so blinded by one profit center cashflow that dominates the conversation. When you look at the total return that you get, you're going to realize that, you know, north of 50 percent of it, and often sometimes up to 70, high 70s percent, it is home price appreciation. So when you're looking at a market, what do you need to ask yourself to understand that you're, that you are feeding the Pac Man, feeding the biggest part of the pie chart. You want to look at the average home price appreciation in that market. Over 30 years.
Gregg Cohen:Yeah, actually the data goes back 40 years. So the longer, the better when you're just, when you're understanding what the average home price appreciation rate is, and I'll, I'll just kind of piggyback off of what you're saying. There's a lot of metrics to think about when you're making an investment decision. Hopefully you've worked with a great team and they've led you to the market conversation. So you're there and you're like, okay, what do I need to focus on? Two things right off the bat, low prices, high growth, low prices, high growth. So understand what the median home price is in the country. And then understand what your median price is in your neighborhoods, in your market. And the reason that's important is you have to have below average pricing in order for this asset to pay for itself every single month. That's what cashflow means. It means it's paying for itself every single month. So the first thing you're looking for is low prices. Look up what the median is, make sure your median, your market, and your neighborhoods is below that. The second thing is growth. By growth, we mean home price appreciation. And that's what Pablo is talking about here. It's, it is easy to understand over the long haul, which markets appreciate more than other markets out there. And so that's what you're looking for. what's the average home price appreciation rate for the entire country? We want to make sure yours is above that. So low prices, high growth, that's the first place you start.
Pablo Gonzalez:Got
Gregg Cohen:it.
Pablo Gonzalez:And again, you know, I think that there is, there's different priorities for rental property investors, depending on your timeline, right? Like cashflow might be more important to you today than tomorrow. Right now we're talking about ROI, right? Like we're talking about maximizing ROI and the idea of home price appreciation being by far the part that gives you the most ROI. Only gets exaggerated by the fact that in real estate, you have access to leverage, which are these things that you can't do in other places. You can take a loan out and invest in something. And you're getting all of the appreciation on that money that is borrowed to that you borrowed plus the money that you put into it. And that leverage adds an extra, like, what is it like a, unlike a 25 percent down payment, you're basically getting like four to one on, on what your, what your ROI is on leverage on a, 30% down payment, you're getting a little over three to one on a 20%. You're getting five to one. Exactly. Right. So like you're really, you know, throwing the cart away with a horse or however you say it. I'm thinking, I'm thinking about it in Spanish of like, milk and magnesia is how we say it. But, um, you're mixing the milk with the magnesia is how you pronounce it. Say it in Spanish, But, um, you, you know, you're like, not giving yourself the opportunities to get the most ROI. By, you know, not paying attention to home price appreciation. So understanding your market, understanding the historical home price appreciation, understanding that if you're looking at it for 40 years, you can bank on that home price appreciation for the next 15 to 20. Is very, very real. Absolutely. Okay. So you don't want to kill your ROI that way. And then finally property, right? When it comes to ROI on the property, what you need to understand is that when you're looking at a deal evaluation, you got two types of numbers, you got by numbers and you got whole numbers. The by numbers are the details on the property. The things that are today that won't change the price. Your mortgage rate, the insurance that's happening when you're buying it, right? What else am I missing? The taxes on day one HOAs, if they exist on day one, those kinds of things that are clear that you're going to know on day one for sure. And then there's the whole numbers. You can say these are the performance metrics numbers, right? Those are the things that over time, cause you're holding this for a long time is going to greatly affect your ROI. The maintenance rate, the average occupancy, average renewal, average rent increases, those kinds of things that all go into this understanding. We recently did a show where we broke down the idea of, Hey, what happens if you're investing in a property management company who signs one year leases and therefore averages a one year stay? And how does that affect your numbers when you start investing? Putting into account a lack of occupancy for when you're turning that property, the amount of maintenance that you need to, that you need to do whenever you turn a tenant. And what did we come up with, GC?
Gregg Cohen:Yeah, it was 32 percent is what the actual maintenance expectation is if you accept one year leases and one year residence. 32%. Yeah. That's a 32 percent maintenance cost. And what's on most evaluations is 5%. 5%? Yeah. Some have zero?
Pablo Gonzalez:Yeah.
Gregg Cohen:So, again, going back to why most people don't invest in real estate, it's that experience of not accurately estimating what maintenance costs are. And then they feel like they get burned. They get a big cash flow hit and they're like, well, I don't want to hold on to this thing for five years or 10 years. And they miss out on this beautiful asset class. So knowing your numbers, not just the buy numbers, but the performance numbers, the hold numbers is really, really, very, very important for your overall experience and longevity.
Pablo Gonzalez:Yeah. So understanding that those are two separate things. Number one, demanding that the buy numbers are a hundred percent verified. And then two, you got to be able to ask these questions on the whole numbers, right? Like, how are you getting this stuff? How are you doing this? Because this is where they're going to gain it. You said it, sometimes they just leave it off. Sometimes they give you 0 percent vacancy. Sometimes they give you zero maintenance, right? Sometimes they're not. adding in tenant placement fees, they're, you know, like doing all these things, but if you take it a step further and like make sure that they're there and they can say, oh, okay, I've got a 5 percent maintenance rate and a 3 percent vacancy rate. Tell me how you, tell me how you calculate that.
Gregg Cohen:Yeah. Right.
Pablo Gonzalez:Right. Like talk me through that. So does that mean that I should expect to have people, if you have a 3 percent vacancy rate, that means that. You should have people stay a minimum of three years. Is that kind of it? Like
Gregg Cohen:ask them what the source of asking first, make sure that there is something in there for your maintenance and vacancy ongoing costs. Make sure that's in your proforma. Don't accept anything less because that's going to happen. And then when they give you that number, ask the source of the data. Is it your own proprietary data? Or is it something that you just use as an industry standard? Almost every property management company just uses an industry standard. And they do that because they don't track their own data. So they can't possibly have proprietary proprietary data, but it just doesn't line up with reality. One year tenants days lead to over 30 percent maintenance costs. Most property management companies sign one year leases and have one year tenants days, but on their pro formas, they might put 5 percent in there. And so that Delta is what Unfortunately prevents more people from taking advantage of this asset class. So now that you know this information, ask the necessary questions so that you know what you're getting into and you're set up for success.
Pablo Gonzalez:Yeah. I think that that's a really good example of a conversation to have. If they tell you that they have, you know, if they're, if once they tell you their maintenance and their vacancy rates, then you can say, Hey, cool, interesting. So Yeah. Cool. then do you know your renewal rate? Yeah. Right. If they tell you that their average tenant, you know, like they, that they signed one year leases then they should have a really, really good renewal rate. If, if that's, if that's what they're doing, if they're going to put that in front of you. Right. So like, if they're doing one of your leases, you need to have a really high renewal rate. you know, like if you, if you don't have that, Then you can expect to have this turnover happen, right? Like they're just leaving it up to chance. And that's where people game is. So make sure that you are looking for hold numbers, buy numbers and hold numbers. And in the hold numbers that you're asking the questions of, like, talk to me how this happened. A
Gregg Cohen:hundred percent.
Pablo Gonzalez:So now that you know the three ROI killers, I've got one challenge for everybody. Test them. Test yourself in these conversations. Go to chatwithjwb. com. Pick a time to get on with the team. If you've never gone through this process before, the perfect, what I tell people when I teach this class is like, Hey, you know, if you, if you take this and go try this with somebody else, they might talk you into being like that. You're crazy. Right? So the number one thing that you need to do is. Go win the quiz, right? Like get on with chat with jwb. com. Pick a time to talk to them, call them at 904 677 6777 and test this right? Because all you need to do is see that one time that somebody has all these answers and passes test to know that when somebody tells you this is impossible, that they are just lying to you because they want your business, right? So go to chat with jwb. com Pick a time to talk, run this test yourself, right? Like go back and listen to this thing on the podcast and, and go ask all these questions and get practicing, not just asking for it, but demanding answers to these questions. Because it's too easy for someone to be like, well, that's crazy. Nobody does that. And then make you feel stupid. Once you know that somebody does do that, now you can start to expect that stuff. And now you can really control for what McKenzie tells you is a real estate investing edge, customer experience, tech enabled data decisions. And of course. Community, which is what you come to this show for.
Gregg Cohen:Well said brother. What do you think GC? That was awesome. And I'll just piggyback on the testing. I love that. I love that being put to the test. I didn't prep the team that we were going to be going into this. Yeah. Yeah. So you're getting a true test there. and what a better time to go through this process for yourself. Like now, which is this. Get one of those, get one of those 20 mortgages. That's what I'm saying. The next 20 contracts are going to have rates bought down for you three quarters of a point. That means that very likely you'll be somewhere in the low fives for your interest rate to low to mid fives. So no better time than right now. There's certainly an urgency component to this. And I'm, I just, I love us getting really vocal about what the impact of lowering interest rates is going to do to the, to the housing market. We've been saying it for a long time now. Just start to check out the articles that come through over the next coming weeks. You're going to be reading about mortgage application rates are up because interest rates are coming down. You're going to see this over the coming months. And you'll just know that you heard it here first on the Not Your Average Investor show.
Pablo Gonzalez:I love it, GC. We got one question from Mike Foster. Greg, somewhere down the road, do you foresee JWB vertical integration in housing its own in house construction slash home repair services rather than having third party companies to continue doing the work?
Gregg Cohen:You know, I, I think we're really happy with the way that we've built out our construction and maintenance teams. It's, it's not a hundred percent in house and it's not a hundred percent external as well. We have key leaders in each of those, we have director, managers, supervisors in each of those roles to be able to make sure that we're managing those aspects of the business effectively, but we're also take able to take advantage of home builders who already have their existing organization and their existing sub base. And so I really think that we have the best of all worlds. We've done it differently in the past. And we have migrated over the 18 years to the place that we're all right now. So I wouldn't see that as something that we're looking forward to changing. I think it's a really great balance and I think it serves our clients well. And it's also making sure that, you know, our company is built to manage this part of the organization the right way.
Pablo Gonzalez:There you go. Learning off of your own data and your own lived experience and your own data flywheel, right? Do you see him? I want to shout out woman's USA soccer team right now is playing Germany, but let's go USA. All right, team. Nadim. The shaman brought that up. Love it. Next week is the, is the grand puba. That's right. Right. What's going on next week. Do you see?
Gregg Cohen:You know, Pablo and I have been working more on preparing for the next week's quarterly real estate market update than probably any market update we may have ever done before. And I'm super excited. I think what we're going to be able to do is to break down a lot of myths that have been longstanding myths. And then also a lot of myths that are maybe very time sensitive and urgent based on Where we are as an economy today, you know, we've talked a lot about the election. We've talked a lot about interest rates. We've talked a lot about these, these preconceptions that we have. I think we're going to have to update it after this weekend too. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Right. Yeah, I know. So, and the best thing that we can do is to arm you with data and perspective. And so very excited about doing that. You're going to see all the things that you normally see in the real estate market update, as far as getting a picture of Jacksonville real estate, the same things we look at to show you where we are as a market. But we're going to add a lot more data, a lot more perspective, a lot of insights that are going to help you make wise decisions for your investment portfolio with us.
Pablo Gonzalez:The quarterly market update is the most attended show. It's the most downloaded show. It's the most viewed show on J on YouTube. So we know that you're going to show up. So don't forget to join us live on Tuesday from now till then, GC.
Gregg Cohen:One more thing. One more thing. We are doing a special nine o'clock showing on board presentation of the show next Tuesday. So if you're here live watching the show, that's awesome. Just show up next Tuesday at 1230. We're going to be doing the show for you. However, if there's somebody in your network who can't watch it at 1230, there is another registration link. And I don't know if Joanna, if you can post that in the chat, We'll make sure that we get that out to you because you can then share that with your friends. We're going to do it all over again at nine o'clock at night for the very first time. From my place. From your place. Right. From your couch. We'll be hanging out on Pablo's couch. Yeah. Um, and yeah, so that'll be there. Would love for you to invite your friends, your family, others who might not be able to make it during the day.
Pablo Gonzalez:Thanks for remembering that, GC. You got it. I dropped the ball on that one.
Gregg Cohen:No
Pablo Gonzalez:worries. That being said, from here until then, don't be average.
Gregg Cohen:See
Pablo Gonzalez:you on Tuesday.