Not Your Average Investor Show
Not Your Average Investor Show
429 | Cash Flow Questions: Strategy, Down Payment, Rates FAQ
We are all looking ahead to 2025 and deciding how we want to build wealth, but we have figured out that so much changed in 2024, you all have questions about current buying conditions.
That’s why we’re answering today’s most frequently asked questions on the latest edition of the Not Your Average Investor show.
Join Gregg Cohen, co-founder of JWB, and show host, Pablo Gonzalez, and members of the front line on questions- the JWB sales team- to dive into the questions you are probably asking yourself, like:
- how much cash flow are investors getting these days?
- where are rates today, and how are they affecting pricing?
- what do you need to have saved up to buy a rental and get positive cash flow in the first year?
- much more!
Stop using outdated conditions or hearsay to make your 2025 investing plans.
Listen now!
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welcome, welcome everyone to the last, not your average investor show of the year. Sparkle, sparkle, sparkle, sparkle. Today we are diving into your biggest questions we're talking about. What are the rates? What's inventory like? What's the cash flow situation like? But most importantly, and most interesting to me is there's been two fundamental changes in buyer behavior for the Jacksonville, not your average investor. And I'm really pumped to get into it. I'm your host Pablo Gonzalez with me today, returning to the show. Man, the ultimate utility player of any team, the Swiss army knife. That can do everything and do everything well. Founding member of the show and the community. My good buddy, Kate Sutherland. Welcome to the show, buddy. Thank
Kate:you, thank you. Yeah. I was wondering what the, the nickname of choice would be today.
Pablo Gonzalez:What was the nickname last time? I,
Kate:I don't think there was one. I don't think there was one. It's always just a very heartfelt introduction. It is. Not necessarily a nickname.
Pablo Gonzalez:Because it comes from the heart. Yeah. And it's felt.
Kate:Yeah. I feel it. I feel it, baby.
Pablo Gonzalez:And uh, DC is off. I think he's skiing somewhere, right? Is that what
Kate:he does? I don't know. I've lost track of him.
Pablo Gonzalez:Such a mystery, such a mystery. Anyways, we're wishing him a Happy New Year. And of course, we are welcoming our community with our tradition, like none other, which is called what, Kate? The Roll Call. We got the mystery man checking in from Kuwait with a Happy New Year.
Happy New Year.
Pablo Gonzalez:Do you wanna say the names? Do you know all the fake names? You don't know. Danny Davies is our mystery man. We got Joanna, our community manager. She's in the Philippines, they already celebrated New Year, so she's hanging out. Post New Year celebration, Joanna. He's ahead of the game. Good to have you here. We got Tee, Caster, From T from Nashville, Tennessee. Good to have you T. We got our usual leadoff hitter batting for today. John Henning. We got the ringmaster joining us on this New Year's Eve. Drew Barnhill. maven from the mountains of Denver today in snowy Vail. I'm not jealous at all. Leslie Wilson. Good to have you. We got Jeff Pettyjohn welcoming us. Welcoming us with a happy new year at Larry with a happy new year from Jacksonville. Chris Lee from Fernandina Beach. Good to have you. Our regulars, Gary and Rosalind Riley from Murrieta, California. We regard you highly.
Kate:They reached out to me just recently too. I'm interrupting your roll call, but it was just so sweet to just see their names come across my inbox. And now they're here. And now here we
Pablo Gonzalez:are, all of us together on a
Kate:New Year's Eve.
Pablo Gonzalez:Who else we got in here? We got Mary Rockoff rockin from, uh, she's in Arizona, right? Mary, you're in Arizona? Yep. Pretty sure. But she's rockin
Kate:The Shaw Man.
Pablo Gonzalez:The Shaw Man is in the house with his traditional good morning, good afternoon, Nadim Shaw from the Pacific Northwest, the fairy godmother of the Natural Average Investor Show community. You
Kate:know,
Pablo Gonzalez:Jen fills in the sweetest. Good to have you in here, Jen, sir. Jeffrey Bolton, Bolton wishing us a happy end of 2024. Good to have you. The guy who was Rocklin in Rocklin, the number two Steelers fan of the, natural average investor community, Lewis Hudnall. Should I tell him
Kate:that my husband is from Maryland and is a big Ravens fan, or should we save that?
Pablo Gonzalez:I don't think you should have brought that up at all, Kate. That's pretty awkward. What next? Are you going to talk about how great Cleveland is? Alright, we got Leo for Rockin On. Ba ba da da da, for Rockin On. Leo, always happy to have you back, man, because we love singing your voice, your name, and I guess your work schedule has kind of made it so you can't. Our favorite name to pronounce, Aaron O'Neill. Into the Heights! Aaron, good to have you checking in. John Williams checking in from Uniondale, New York. John Williams is a legendary music, musical score composer.
Kate:Wow.
Pablo Gonzalez:Well, at least he shares the name with him and I like to poke him about it. Good to have you John Who else we got in here? We got T is in the house All right. Oh the first family of the not traveling to a show and Carolyn Malina. We salute you Joe color from South Carolina Joe good to have you but who else in your charity Graham is back in the house charity Good to have you checking in Monsieur Ritchie von Zay from the Indian Empire with a happy new year Reggie, Reggie, good to have you, buddy. Always like to practice my French accent. Matt Coffey from Orange Park, right down the street here. Tom Banzer from Angola, New York. Angola, isn't that an island in the Caribbean as well? Probably the same as New York. Yep. Same, same. Oh, favorite smile from the Pacific Northwest, Pamela Myers, your friend. Yeah, yeah, that's right. Just talked to her. Early bird, Dean Curry. Checking in a little late today, no big deal. We're not keeping track here, but you're welcome. Who else we got out here? Luis Hondo wants to say Boo Ravens.
Kate:Oh no! It's okay.
Pablo Gonzalez:Alright, cool. We are, we are through. Ooh, Justine Herrera. Checking in also with a happy new year. Sorry.
Kate:Happy new year. Let's get into it Kate. Let's
Pablo Gonzalez:do we are wrapping up 2024 I'm really pumped up to tap into these trends of what like new investors are coming to the market with that We have uncovered in preparation for this show, but for right now Let's give the people kind of what they what they came for right like what's the current? Snapshot when you're on when you're on a sales call I imagine it kind of like starts with rate because the rate kind of like determines the decision which goes into pricing, which goes into cashflow. Is that kind of like a, the bridge that people are walking these days? It
Kate:is. It is. There's so many conversations too that start with cashflow. By no means are we tiptoeing around that conversation, but I think this year we've probably had more folks than any coming to us. understanding the dynamic that go into cash flow, right? It is so much more than just the property itself. The rates are a huge component of what dictates your cash flow from each property to property. And with that, I think everybody kind of didn't know this year, is it gonna, are we starting to see drops? Are we going to wait by the end of the year and then maybe rates are going to drop? Are they going to go up? Like, you know, we've battled this for, it feels like two years now, this kind of roller coaster of what rates are going to do. And they've largely been pretty consistent this year. And that has allowed us on our side to say, okay, With rates at at least a relatively stable position and when you compare them to historic rates, we aren't astronomically high. Are we as historically low as we were? No. Do we want to be back to that place? Arguably not. Right? But it has allowed us to kind of look at our inventory and say, okay, what, what levers do we have to pull here? And that's where we've started to be able to look at things like buying down your interest rate. That's really not a conversation that we had with clients coming into the sales onboarding process prior to this year. So you look at that opportunity, you look at some of the incentives that we've had on there, but you know what, one thing that has continued to do is prices have still continued to go up on our inventory. So, I just think it's amazing, you know, you guys, we've had John Siebert on the show before, we've got some great networks with our, our lender base that we utilize, and this morning I could email John and say, hey, going on the show today, what are rates looking like as of today, because they will change, and they are changing every single day. Knowing what they are right now with, you know, the relationships that we have with the point buy down aspect, we can confidently say you're looking at about a 5. 5 percent interest rate.
Okay.
Kate:But a couple weeks ago, that was 5. 25%. And a little bit before that, that was 6%. So there is still a lot of fluctuation, but at least we've kind of been in a, pretty similar ballpark. And just having that ability to say, Hey, what are they today? So we can try to give you the best, most accurate depiction of what it's going to look like at the time you go, you actually lock into your rate is invaluable.
Pablo Gonzalez:Got it. So what I'm understanding from what you just said is a, people are really starting to like come to JWB with a much bigger picture understanding of kind of like what drives. The short term performance of the investments. Yep. And we're going to talk a little bit more about that perspective that people are coming to in a little bit. And within that is rates, right? Like the, the dynamic between rates and prices. Are big rates have been not necessarily volatile, but not stagnant But they've stayed kind of like in this window of like mid fives Yes, sort of right like mid like low to mid mid to high fives kind of thing and and that's and that's a Constant conversation that you are having with the JWB preferred lintern network For example, John Siebert who we've had on the show texted him five minutes ago. He told you right now They're at five and a half
Kate:Yeah,
Pablo Gonzalez:right.
Kate:Yeah. And I mean, kind of speaking of the levers pull to, you know, we mentioned you've got the ability to buy down your rate and you can put points towards that. It's also down payment, right? I mean, for a long time, it was just kind of a standard for us to say, yeah, 25 percent down is the standard. Can you go lower? Absolutely. Could you go higher? Absolutely. Well, this year, when you look at the rates and you look at prices and you are trying to try to stay at that breakeven cash flow as best as you can, working with those factors like the prices and the rates, 30 percent down is very, very common now for our clients where, you know, we have the, the tool to showcase the impact of this property at this purchase price with this rent amount coming in, how can we manipulate an interest rate and customize it to what Your situation is or what, you know, the lender is saying rates are as of today. And then how can we manipulate the down payment percentage so that we can really build and customize the plan to exactly what you need, which a lot of people are still very, very, very much of the mindset that says, Hey, I don't want a liability. I don't want something that I'm going to have to walk into and just sink a bunch of money in. But I also know that I'm willing to let this thing do it as best, which is be my little crock pot and cook in the background and you set it and forget it. And that has allowed us to say, okay, how can we kind of build this plan to get you into a breakeven cashflow perspective with a five and a half percent interest rate? Let's look at 30 percent down. What does that do to your entry point, your capital? What do we need to be able to hit that? And then. We go from there.
Pablo Gonzalez:I love the crockpot analogy. Oh yeah. Right. I used
Kate:that. If you've been on the phone with me recently, you've heard me say, yeah,
Pablo Gonzalez:be your crockpot. Love this. Be your crockpot. I love it.'cause I think of my crockpot. It's just like I do a little bit of preparation. Yep. I throw it in there and in the morning my house smells delicious and I have lunch for the next seven days.
Kate:You come home and you're like, thank you,
Pablo Gonzalez:I love that. That's cool. All right. So recap rates are rates are doing what they're doing. That means that folks are able to, in the mid fives, right? I think at Lowry said here, he just closed and he was at like a 5. 65, something like that. Mid January closing, locked it in 5. 62 closing mid January. Yeah. That, that, that checks out. And then now, what you're talking about is based on the pricing and based on kind of folks plans and the crockpot recipe that they're trying to cook whether it's chili or al pastor they are, you're seeing a lot of folks put 30 percent down these days. Maybe two years ago, it was like a no brainer. 25%. When I first started, it was like 20 percent
worked
Pablo Gonzalez:as well. We then had another blip that was like 25 percent was back in the mix. But you're seeing mostly people put in 30 percent down right now.
Kate:That's what we see. So
Pablo Gonzalez:let's reverse engineer that to kind of like where the pricing is. So folks can understand how much they need to bring to the table for An investment like this, where's pricing at these days?
Kate:Yeah. Yeah. It's a great question. So, and two parters, right? So you've got kind of your minimum capital that you'd think you'd want to have really ready to be able to deploy. So much of my inventory right now, historically, I've always said, Oh, we're about a 60, 40 split, a 70, 30 split of new construction and renovated properties. You look at the market as a whole view as to what we would have to be able to find and acquire to buy a property, renovate it, be able to turn it over and sell it, rent it to make the numbers work on the back end. That's been a lot more rare. So this inventory that we have right now is very heavily weighted. As of today, I have one renovated property available for sale. Will more of them come online mid Q1 next year? Yes. But as of right now, everything, everything but one is new construction. So I say that because our renovated properties, those are usually your entry at a, at a lower. Price point, right? Which is fantastic to add to your portfolio with those but for now, mostly new construction prices are probably 215 to 280. And we have a duplex, which We almost never have duplexes for sale. Both sides of the duplex. Yeah, you're buying the building. Full
Pablo Gonzalez:duplex. Very cool. So you've got two sides.
Kate:Both sides are already rented. And that's 580. 585.
Pablo Gonzalez:Okay.
Kate:For a purchase price, which you can divide it by two.
Pablo Gonzalez:So 580 is like about 290 per. No, 580. Yes. Public math. Yes. Never do public math on anything. No. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah.
Kate:You come up with the answer. Yeah,
Pablo Gonzalez:it is.
Kate:Yeah.
Pablo Gonzalez:Yeah. Sure. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. 290.
Yeah.
Pablo Gonzalez:Okay. Interesting. All right. So. Low to mid 200s for new construction. Is the duplex new construction? Yes.
Oh interesting. Very cool.
Pablo Gonzalez:Very cool. And then One there's only one renovated property right now. You know as you're saying this I was actually prepping for next week's show Which is this there's this report by Fannie Mae talking about like the five predictions for the for the year for next year And one of the predictions teaser is that You New construction is like the new darling of like inventory right now, right? Like so that checks out
Kate:it does it does I mean and and I Like to keep it in perspective to have the one renovated property. It's 180, 000 entry point, right? So when you're building that portfolio Those properties you you think about the entry point that that allows you to grow your portfolio I, I just, those usually go very, very quick because especially our clients that know us and they know JWB and they're saying, Oh, I can get one at 180. Sign me up for as many as I can gobble up. So the new constructions, of course, are amazing opportunities as well. I think the perception of new construction always aids in those of this mindset of thinking, well, I don't, you know, I'm not wanting the additional maintenance. I don't want additional vacancy. And it's pretty neat when we actually go and run the numbers. There's not one that really outperforms the other because of the standard at which we renovate our properties, which then in turn kind of goes back to, in order for us to Be able to renovate at that high of a standard the acquisition has to make a lot of sense It's just been harder to do this year in this market.
Pablo Gonzalez:Yeah. Okay. Interesting the chat is happening, right? Community is talking a couple people folks talked about like the incentive package that that's been going on I know that there was an incentive package that was expiring at the end of this year.
Kate:Yeah,
Pablo Gonzalez:but actually today is that still available? Like if you go under
Kate:contract today, yeah,
Pablo Gonzalez:so probably it would
Kate:have to be, yeah, it would have to, it would probably have to be somebody that has already been in conversations with us. Because it'd be really hard to start at square one today and make you feel good because, you know, you always walk into from a business perspective. Obviously we wanted to put our clients in a really wonderful Spot to be able to lock into purchase prices today, but also for the team like we just want to come out swinging in q1
Yeah,
Kate:and so that was really the the mindset behind the the timing of this one but at no point what I ever want to sacrifice how we onboard a client to just take advantage of a Incentive if you start to bypass all of the steps of hey Well, what is this gonna look like for me as I actually become the owner of it? It gets pretty dangerous because now you're closing on a property and you're like, Whoa, are you also the property manager? What does that look like? And that's not how we want to onboard anybody. So
Pablo Gonzalez:that being said, Jeremy Bowen, I appreciate you popping in the Q and A, right? Like if you want a question asked on the show, put it in the Q and A because the chat does its thing and these glasses aren't real. So they don't actually help me see from far away, but that being said, so the incentive, what incentive package are you offering from Jeremy Bowen? We were just talking that there's still a, there's still a maintenance credit that he's offering.
Kate:Yeah. So the December incentive aside there's two. So if you have a three pack, if you have three properties that you're putting under contract at the same time then that. Yields you the opportunity to get a purchase and sales incentive. So that's 2 percent of the purchase price that is applied at, on your contract at closing. So earlier we talked about your interest rate, right? We talked about that opportunity to buy down your interest rate. Well, that it costs money, right? So in order to be able to have JWB contribute to that 2 percent of your purchase price is similar to about two points that you could use to buy down the rate. So that helps you front closing costs, less capital out of pocket at closing. But that's if you have three properties under contract simultaneously. Okay.
Pablo Gonzalez:So if you're buying a bundle.
Kate:Correct. Oh, love it. Beyond that, so let's say, well, I've got the capital to be able to buy one or two properties. What you get there is a property management incentive that that after you close on the property, you'll get your first statement through JWB and that same 2 percent of your purchase price, you get back on your first statement. So you think about the impact, you know, kind of full circle here of where we started with rates. Purchase prices, you know, by the time the impact that those have on your net rental income, the other thing to consider is any sort of maintenance or vacancy costs. So this was JWB saying, Hey, we don't get to control rates, right? The market is still growing. It's still very healthy. So that's going to continue to have a, an impact on purchase prices going up. What can we do on the backend to make sure that you don't have these additional maintenance and vacancy costs come at you in the beginning. And so that's what that property management maintenance incentive is on the back end. So to still 2 percent of your purchase price on your first statement, the idea and the goal behind that is this is capital for you to reserve so that you can utilize that for any additional maintenance vacancy that you'd experienced in the first couple of years. Okay,
Pablo Gonzalez:I'm gonna ask you to repeat that to me One more time for two reasons one I told you I have a little bit of a sinus headache and um But I was also just pumped that Jeremy asked the question and now he's saying thanks for he's a new guy Yeah, Jeremy just want to welcome you. Thank you for asking the question It's it always takes a little bit of courage to like jump out in front of the community when you see such a thing So 2 percent of the purchase price, so whatever whatever price of the property is that's K 225.
Kate:Mm hmm You
Pablo Gonzalez:Since that's going to be really easy math for me.
Kate:In all of our properties, it's between about 4,
Pablo Gonzalez:000 to 6, 000. Thank you. So, you know, 2 percent of the purchase price, which will come out to between 4 is then credited back to you at the end of month one as a credit towards your future maintenance expenses.
Kate:Yeah. It's, it's a, it's a line item on your first statement, right? So you've, you've closed on the property and then now you get your first statement. So you'll see like your first property management fees, rental 2 percent line item. You'll see that as a credit. on that statement that it's just money back to you.
Pablo Gonzalez:Okay. So that's money back to you. And that means I can take that money. And you know, I'm just mentally thinking, all right, that's going to be money coming back to me. So now I can use my own money to buy down a rate or, you know, like, and use it that way.
Kate:Yeah. If you end up, so let's say, you know, you're not doing the three pack and you are wanting to take advantage of the opportunity to buy down your interest rate, then we already on our tool, we can account for that and what you'd expect in terms of your closing costs. Estimate as close as we can. And then you, you could also kind of think about that maintenance credit on the back end, that property management credit as paying yourself back for any points there. We are already accounting for maintenance and vacancy percentages in our returns. So that it's kind of twofold. Do you want to keep that right? You should have some reserves on hand anyway for your property. Do you want to add that to it and just be able to tap into that bucket as maintenance and vacancy arise or Do you want to consider it a payback for a point buy down? Buy down
Pablo Gonzalez:the rate. Yeah. I like that. I like that. You know, the more seeped I get into this industry, the more I realize that as a, as a rental property investor, and Greg's been kind of telling me this for so long.
Yeah.
Pablo Gonzalez:Right. Like as a rental property investor, there is this kind of like psychological, um, Obstacle burden that comes with whenever there's maintenance is this is like high tension moment.
Yeah,
Pablo Gonzalez:right It's just like this moment where you're just like, oh man I got a I got a dip into my into like my savings to pay for this thing And is this really worth it and blah blah blah blah blah where I was like in other asset classes But If your investment dips to 15%, you don't even think about it because it doesn't actually touch your touch your bank account, right? So like not
Kate:a conversation at the dinner table,
Pablo Gonzalez:not a conversation at the dinner table. There's no one to question about it. Yeah, right. So like I see this I see this maintenance credit as one way to either Hedge against that, right? Like say, oh, okay. So I'm actually not having to touch anything because I have this money already there. No big deal. It was already set there. Or it's money to play a little bit of offense. Like if you can handle that kind of like that psychological hurdle and you're already prepped for it and you've already like put this money aside and you know it, you can then just use that money to increase your cashflow by lowering the rate. And that's kind of like a long term investment in future cashflow as well. Absolutely. Cool. I'm into it. I'm into it. That being said, what are general kind of like cash flow conversations you're having right now? You were just, you were just telling me that people are coming in and you're not even listing year one cash flow on the property return. So talk to me how that, yeah, that kind of works.
Kate:Yeah. It's, it's a pretty neat place to be now because Clients are getting that, and that's that's nice. You know, of course, it's still a question. Like I said, we won't tiptoe around the topic, but clients are really starting to understand now more and more so that, okay, there's a lot of those factors that are outside of JWB's control, right? So what is it actually going to look like for me in the long run, which is why we, we keep the focus there. So on our generator tool now, what we're highlighting is we're saying, Hey, let's remember why we are getting into this in the first place. What are these dollars meant to do for you? The longer you hold on to it, when do you really need them to start going to work for you? And based off of those answers is what kind of dictates how and when we get into the cashflow conversation. Cause More often than not, it's folks that are saying, Hey, I, I don't need them today. I'm willing to stay as close to break even as I can be, which of course, that's our goal too. And this maintenance right in the back end, our dollars back to you to absolutely make sure, you know, you'll have that in the beginning. But then beyond that, it's let's focus again, keep our time and attention and focus on what really matters as to what is this portfolio going to look like for you at the end of your holding period and anything beyond that. It's hard to say, you know, it's really hard to pinpoint. Oh, okay. Well, as of year three, Expect this
as
Kate:of year six, expect this. It's difficult to, to be that specific with it. But what we feel confident in is saying after a real estate cycle, expect this. So that's kind of why we made the shift that we did. And just getting that comfortability of saying everything I show you on my inventory is going to look the same, perform the same based off of your capital and your entry point. What kind of dollars are we working with? And let that really also help us determine what makes the most sense for you from the down payment perspective, from a point buy down perspective, to really try to keep you as cashflow break even as we can.
Pablo Gonzalez:Yeah. Okay.
Kate:With that maintenance credit on the back end, giving you some extra dollars to boost.
Pablo Gonzalez:If I was to get really aggressive on this analogy that we've been making, the Oh,
yeah.
Pablo Gonzalez:Right. It doesn't, you know, like if I was to think of cashflow, it's kind of like the servings of the meal to a certain extent. Right. And it's like if I'm, if I'm putting something in the crock pot and I know it's got to cook for eight hours. It really doesn't matter to me what it's going to taste like at hour two or three.
Kate:Yeah, exactly.
Pablo Gonzalez:Right. Cause I'm not going to eat it at that time. You
Kate:may get salmonella.
Pablo Gonzalez:You might get salmonella. Yeah. That's it. We could go forever. Right. But when it comes to rental properties, we can peg it to like a full market cycle. And if you have a horizon of, Hey, my kid goes to college in this many years. And at that point I need to have this much to like play with in order to pay for that and the cashflow and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. We can. We can set that and we can set the hours of the crock pot to cook the meal for that point and be real certain about it. So this is
Kate:maybe an instant pot, right? Maybe, maybe it's a pressure cooker and we need to up our down payments or we need to look at a cash purchase and we can do that. It's just making sure that we are. Understanding on the front end the why and then building accordingly.
Pablo Gonzalez:My mother in law just came in town yesterday And she said she's buying us an air fryer
Kate:So
I got it
Pablo Gonzalez:so cash flow today isn't really relevant It's this idea of people are coming in with this is my goal Help me build towards that goal and that's what's really cooking and I want to talk about these other two We're about to say something
Kate:Well, I was just gonna say, you know with the cash flow component I think the big thing to come back to too is Nobody wants you and you definitely don't want to walk in thinking that you are in a liability. And that, I think, is very, very important to differentiate of us saying, Hey, let's not get so deep into the weeds on year one, year three cash flow. But at the same time, I also want to make sure that somebody doesn't feel like, Okay, I'm getting into this and it's just going to be a constant detractor of capital away from, you know, my hard earned savings elsewhere. So I think that that's a really important thing for everybody that comes to us to talk to us on the sales side to understand is we, we have built this. That's why we structure. That's why we look at 30 percent down. That's why we look at, you know, and we're getting the most accurate rates that we can, because we know that those things, we don't want this to be a liability for you either.
Pablo Gonzalez:Yeah, makes sense. Makes sense. And that's kind of like the whole. So that's the value prop of going to chat with JWB. com, picking a time, picking a time to like talk to the team, to talk to people like you who sees all this stuff and can, can, you know, like can take all the things in my shopping list and make the right crockpot recipe for you, right? Like that's, that's the value add. So I think we talk about that all the time. And the value of that first of those, of those first two calls of just like, Hey, making sure that this is for you. Yeah. Right. And then, Hey. Let us show you how we build a plan to meet your goals, right? That's essentially the first two calls when you go to chat with JWB and you pick a time. So if anybody wants to do that, you know, Jeremy, I know, I know you're new, but it's, it's always a good exercise. It's not a, you guys, like you just, you just revealed your cards a second ago. Like you're not, you're not, Even if an incentive is running out today, you're not going to try to get somebody how can I get you today? Like it's very much like I get to know you and it's a really good exercise When I teach real estate stuff around the country I always say Give JWB a call so that you can use that as the measuring stick to how everybody else treats you right like Once you see it, you can't unsee it, right? Like this idea of like aligning interests. Alright, that being said, we're going to get into these two trends that I think are super, super relevant, but we have a couple of questions. Let's do that. Jeremy's got another question. Jeremy. He says, In general, what have the monthly rental rates been market wise for the last two, for two to three bedroom rentals? Also, how much gets pulled from your monthly management from that amount?
Kate:Great questions. I would say our average rent, I mean, and most of our properties are two or three bedrooms. Occasionally you'll get a four bedroom. Everything's single family that we're selling turnkey. Sorry. But the average rent amount is about 14, 1450. Yep. not much has changed there from the management fees. So we're only collecting a monthly management fee if the home is rented. I always think that's important to note and that's 10 percent of rent collected. So Whatever that looks like for your monthly rent amounts, 10 percent of that comes back as our monthly management fee, unless you tier up into what we call JWB elite, which once you reach five properties that drops down to 9 percent and 10 properties, it drops down to 8%.
Pablo Gonzalez:We've got a couple of JWB elites in the chat. I see them. Tom Banzer's asking, he's got a property in Memphis that's going to be vacated at the end of January. What's the renter pool looking like currently, Tom? We, you know, JWB really has like all the data in Jacksonville, right? Like they're, like the belief at JWB is to be fully vertically integrated, to fully own the outcome. You need to just be there. a mile deep and only an inch wide in just one market. So I don't think you have any stats on Jacksonville.
Kate:Not off the top of my head. Right. Very good, solid.
Pablo Gonzalez:But those were the stats on, on Jacksonville that you just shared. And then Anonymous Attendee asks, If I cannot find a property I like, can I buy one myself and get JWB to manage it?
Kate:The answer is yes, absolutely. We can very much serve anybody that owns a property that was not purchased by JWB and just would like for us to manage it. I would just make sure upon that process, right, just ask yourself those questions of, okay, think like JWB thinks, right? In terms of the locations, excuse me, is the demand there, is there rental demand there from a, maybe it is going to be a very low entry point. What are the dollars going to look like to do the renovations if those are needed? Will you be able to keep a resident in their long place? So just ask yourself some of those questions upon your acquisition strategy. And I think it's a great plan. And we can absolutely be here to serve you on the management side. If that's the right you do.
Pablo Gonzalez:Yeah. For me personally, right? I'm a customer of JWB. I have my own business. I, I didn't want to spend time. trying to find a property trying to vet all these different things, bringing the property up to a certain standard. There's a great value. And I think the majority of folks here in this chat and in our community, they see the value in just this idea of, Hey, JWB has this thing figured out. Why would I try to like outsmart them in Jacksonville when they're the category leader and they figured all this stuff out? Right. So like, You can definitely do that, and folks have done that, bring property management properties to JWB, but if you don't already have it,
like,
Pablo Gonzalez:if you don't already own the property, it's probably not the best use of your time,
right?
Pablo Gonzalez:Unless you feel like calling in your brother in law and fixing a property for the next three months or whatever, right?
Absolutely.
Pablo Gonzalez:So, cool. All right. So, this, this is, to me, the most interesting part of the call. As we were getting prepped for this, Kate, we, Found two fundamental changes that are happening as far as from the sales front of people coming in. The first that you told me is that folks are having post COVID whiplash. What is that? Tell me, tell me what you mean by that.
Kate:So it's interesting. folks that you look back at, at pandemic times, right. Rates being what they were, especially in Jacksonville, price is still very affordable and you had a lot of new investors. That were able to jump in and they jumped in was it feet first head first head
first. Okay,
Kate:they jumped in head first and they were very, very excited, right? You were able to get very cheap debt. They were able to get these properties. Not so much time. Energy effort went into where are they and who is operating on my behalf? The
Pablo Gonzalez:media for like a blink of an eye. It was like everybody should be doing everybody do it. Right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And
Kate:they did. Which you know had a great impact on appreciation, right? You look at the impact that that had on prices and demand and all these things. Well, what's now happening is you're a couple years into owning that property now or those properties. You're a couple years into a relationship with that property manager. And there are quite a few folks that we are speaking to now that are saying A, I'm getting what I paid for, or B, I wish I would have taken more time to get to know the company. The property itself is fine, but I can never talk to my property manager. I get crazy amount of work orders that I had no idea what this work was, when it was done, why it was done. I'm not communicated with, nobody's there to give me updates. The rents aren't increasing. The, the market isn't, I, I
Pablo Gonzalez:bought in a market that exactly seems better than it is, right? Yeah. Yeah. And
Kate:so, so many folks right now that we're speak speaking to on the new business side of things are not brand new investors. They're due to JWB, but they are coming to us almost from a place of, I don't, I can't do that again. Yeah. I need to find a place that I feel really good about. The operator
Pablo Gonzalez:that is that is so interesting to me because I, you know, it's, it's been recently that I finally figured out this idea that JWB serves not the first time. I mean, JWB is perfect for the first time investor. I'm a first time investor, right? Like, and for me, I don't know any different, but it's almost even better for like the second time and better. Cause you know, the difference of what's out there. I think of, I think of Leslie Wilson story so many stories. We've had on the show of folks that are like, oh, yeah I was you know, I really wanted to get into real estate. I got it I realized that I didn't do all my you know, like I fell in love with like numbers on a sheet Yeah, or somebody told me that they were doing it. I wanted to do it like them And I fell in love with the person, but I didn't really vet out this idea of, Oof, I only buy a property once, but somebody's going to manage it for the life of that property. And if I can't, if I can't count on that, you know, that team, then none of this stuff is going to work for me because it's a lifestyle thing, much more than a, you know, ROI thing. Yeah,
Kate:absolutely. And then that kind of comes back to the conversation earlier.
Pablo Gonzalez:Yeah.
Kate:New construction versus rentals, you know, area of town. We could spend all the time in the world of saying, Hey, let's just look at inventory regardless of which property you choose. If your operator is not performing at a very high standard, it's going to eat away at your returns one way or the other.
And
Kate:folks are feeling that. And even if it's not, high maintenance numbers, just the lack of response and the lack of feeling like you are at least supported in this investment and you have some idea of how it's doing, good or bad. That's what we hear the most is a big pain point for folks is just, I wish I could just talk to somebody about what's actually going on there.
Pablo Gonzalez:I talk
Kate:about
Pablo Gonzalez:this stuff all the time, right? Like, so like, you know, just, just recap here. There was a moment post COVID where the media and everybody, we're just talking about single family rental properties, wall street rushed into it. A bunch of retail investors rushed into it. Like we did. And, and within all that, right. NVIDIA stock, you're like, Oh, okay. And, and, and you go and do it. Right. And, and what people, what we talk about a lot on the show is that the order of operations is broken.
Yep.
Pablo Gonzalez:Most people, when they got into this asset class, they spend 95 percent of the time thinking about their property. Then, you know, like the property is kind of like where the market is or whatever, just kind of like correlated to where somebody has like a lead on a property for you. And then they'll spend an hour or two hours on Craigslist and Zillow or whatever. And Google looking for the best property manager in town when, you know, the order of operation should be find where the best teams are that can handle this for as passive investor. Then look at the different markets, right? That's the, the passive investor piece, but like the team pieces, the who's going to give me visibility. Who's going to give me the feel 300, 000, 200, 000 thing that I just bought is in good hands. Right. Right. Yeah. Then there's the, then there's the. Is this market going to perform the way I want it to? Right? Like sure, it sounds great to go buy a property in Cleveland or Detroit or whatever with like a bunch of cash flow, but are people moving there? Right. When somebody moves out, are you going to have somebody like right there to, to move in right after that? Are rents going to continue to increase? That's happening in Jacksonville. Cause it's such a market. And then it's like, okay, once you have those two things, then you look at the property.
Exactly. Right. So
Pablo Gonzalez:people getting got like that when like it got cool for a second. Makes perfect sense. And where I want to go with this is it's only going to get more important to have a great operator, right? Like, as we look at this, like great generational wealth transfer, I like from boomers to millennials, right? Like what are, you're a millennial too, right? I'm a millennial. We've, we've, we've greatly grown up with like access to information at our fingertips, right? Like I was the last guy that had to look stuff up on an encyclopedia Britannica, you know, like, so, so. You know, like the ability, like the disconnect that's going to happen between folks being like, what's happening with property and actually getting like a response from them or not, property managers are going to have to like, keep up to that. They're going to have to invest in technology like y'all have and have been doing really aggressively for 10 years. You know, they're going to have to invest in. Culture and recruiting folks to a team that didn't always see themselves as like I'm gonna be a property manager when I grew up But do you want to go work for a very high performing team with good leadership and growth opportunities, right? So like I just think that that's that's like a that's just the tale of it I would assume that this is gonna happen more and more as people inherit portfolios and are like, well I want to hold on to this. But what do I do?
Kate:Yeah,
Pablo Gonzalez:right like I bet you that's gonna continue to happen
Kate:Oh, I think for sure I mean and just You look at the world changing and what technology is replacing and, and you have to ask yourself, what, what can, what do we not want to have replaced?
Yeah.
Kate:Right. And, and to have a team that this is home for us too. So you talk about market changes, well, that's impacting us personally as well. You talk about downtown revitalization, that's impacting us personally as well. And so to just be able to know, Hey, looking at market conditions, looking at what's happening right now in these locations. to have some trust in, okay, you, there is perspective. There is, there's true ownership into what you all are saying because we, we ourselves are invested in this city. Like that, you can't replace. That's not a chat GPT response that, that you'd be able to get.
Pablo Gonzalez:Yeah. Agreed. Agreed. Okay. So that's one big trend that's changed. It's like, Now, more than ever, people that you're talking to are second time investors that got burnt, you know, like in their, like in their second go around and try to, try to do it right this time and 1031 exchange thing or, you know, like stuff like that.
Yeah, absolutely.
Pablo Gonzalez:Yeah. So love that. Um, second is, and this one really puts a smile on my face, but you told me that Jacksonville is starting to sell itself now. What do you mean by that?
Kate:Yeah. It's, it's really interesting. I look at back six years, I'll be here six years in February. And I look back. My first role was setting sales calls. So I would get on the phone with folks and I would set our sales team for their first strategy call. And a lot of the questions that I got were like, I have never heard of Jacksonville. Where is it located? You are Disney world, right? And it's, it is very neat to now kind of be at a point where we have folks that are saying, okay, well, you know, your initial questions of, how'd you hear about us? What brought you to JWB? The amount of folks that are so well versed now in Jacksonville as a city, I just, it's extremely inspiring to know that other people are really starting to see the consistency that this market has offered, and not necessarily that, but the potential of like, wow, what an amazing opportunity that I could get into right now, because there will never be another opportunity. Right now in this city, right? You know, you don't get to say, Hey, downtown is already revitalized.
Pablo Gonzalez:Go, go more into that. Go more into that cater people coming with you with the story of downtown. So like, like, go like, you know, we've got new people here. So like, what is that story?
Kate:Yeah, I mean, just looking at like, you're starting to see Forbes, right? You're starting to see fastest growing cities, you know, Best places to live in Florida, like all of these
Pablo Gonzalez:second hottest job market in the U. S. According to the Wall Street Journal. Yeah,
Kate:fourth fastest growing population. You've got supernova city status, like all fastest
Pablo Gonzalez:growing median income in Florida. Like those are
Kate:headlines that people are seeing now. So what used to be conversations of us saying, Hey, here's why this market has worked and will continue to work.
Yeah.
Kate:None of those things have gone away, right? We're still a very, very service driven Economy here at Jacksonville. Those things are still needs. Yeah. Still health care, still
Pablo Gonzalez:finance, still logistics,
Kate:still government and logistics. The ports, right? Like those things are still there. Plus on top of that, now you're getting some of these big headlines of saying fortune 500 companies of tech and health, more and more healthcare and universities and all of these additional components that are really starting to, you know, Recognize the opportunity in Jacksonville from an affordability standpoint from a growth standpoint to say hey We can plant some roots here and that just continues. We talked about the flywheel.
Yeah,
Kate:right now We've got more talent coming now We need more amenities for them and so it just kind of ignites all of those components that We know need to happen for downtown to really take off. Yeah, like they're starting and that's really really cool
Pablo Gonzalez:Yeah, it is really cool. And this idea of we talk about a lot on the show right this idea of we know that when downtowns go from eight hour downtown to a 16 hour downtown, which means people go from like just going to a downtown to like work and then leave and then it's a ghost town. It's kind of dangerous afterwards to people start to live, work and play inside of a downtown, which has happened in Charlotte, in Austin and Denver, you know, and like all these in Nashville and all these great cities. We know that property values, the appreciation curve bends and it just goes a completely different trajectory. And we've been predicting it on the show now for like, as long as we kind of like started this conversation of tracking this and knowing that the tipping point is these like 10, 000 units downtown and the fact that that's already being built in the pipeline projects already happening. We know we're going to get to 11, 000 here within a year. And and it's like buying into Apple right after they released the iPod, knowing that the, knowing, knowing that the iPhone and the iPad and all this other stuff is coming, right? Like, I think it's really cool and it, and it, It puts a big smile on my face because I remember when we were first You're about to be six years here, right? I'm like right. I'm like a right at five years but like when I first started talking to greg about the show, I was like, hey, man I think you gotta talk about jacksonville Yeah, it was that's right It was one of the it was one of the core pillars of like why jacksonville and the idea that it's really really happening It's like it's incredible. It is incredible And
Kate:I one of my favorite parts about our conversations with folks is like You take all of that aside, and even without that, like, look at what we had had for this long, and it still worked.
Then
Kate:you look at that, and like, that's, that to me is that moment in time where people are, are seeing that now to say, Oh, okay, you guys are now a name that are topping a lot of these big lists. And it's, it's only getting better. So I just, I think it's really neat to look at it from that perspective of you take all of that away. It has still worked. You add that in. It's really neat to see what it's about to be.
Pablo Gonzalez:It is really cool. And you know what, as we're going through this, right, like I was just kind of railing on like the wrong order of operations, but I just realized that like the fact that people are now coming in because they've had a bad experience, so they realize the value of the team and they're coming in because they realize the value of the market. It's finally actually the right order of operations. Like people really are looking for team first. Market dynamics that, that provide, you know, growth and risk mitigation at the same time. Yeah. And what about property? Are people like getting hung up on property? Are people like asking more or less about that type of stuff?
Kate:You know, you still get a ton of questions around it and absolutely from the first time investor, you know, a lot of time is spent there as I think it should be because we have to prove ourselves.
Yeah.
Kate:You know, I can't tell you that. Are my director of construction that just went to a trade show and came back with the knowledge of a palisade tile, which is going to increase, you know, the, the. amount of moisture that a bathroom floor can take. Like, those are cool things that we get to experience.
But
Kate:that doesn't mean a ton to a new investor that's like, I don't quite know you yet. I don't quite know your, your product, your model. So yes, we spend quite a bit of time on properties themselves. But I will tell you, once you've looked at two, you've looked at 12.
Because
Kate:they all start to look the exact same. Returns are going to fall within the same bucket. Price points will be the exact same. Floor plans, finishes, color schemes, like locations. Everything is good. The widgetization
Pablo Gonzalez:of a completely complex transaction is what you have really figured out.
Kate:And it's been really neat because these folks that are Not first time investors, but know what they want. It's so much less about the property because they yearn for that. Like, Oh, you found out a way to rinse and repeat this thing. And you've got six of the same thing. Give me all six. Like, yes, sign me up. I want that. I want that repeatable product. Not this, is this the one that's going to work or is this the one?
Pablo Gonzalez:Yeah.
Kate:I've got one in this market. I've got one in this market, you know, like.
Pablo Gonzalez:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We talk about scalable all the time, but I think the magic word is repeatable. Yeah. Right. Like if I, you know, if I'm going to dip my toe in real estate, you know, most people are doing that because they have a why. The why generally revolve, I was just talking to my best friend about this. He's like a hot shot lawyer. And he's like, Oh yeah, I've got all these like a venture capital investments and blah, blah, blah. I was like, Oh, that's cool, dude. I want like 50 percent of my net worth to be in real estate, you know, like, and I want to, and I want to get there, right? Like I, I, I want, I want the kind of like when I think about my 60, 40 portfolio, I want the super low risk and pretty high return kind of like Buoyancy of real estate to be at least 50 percent of my net worth and if I'm gonna do that I can't just be like out evaluating deals left and right I need to be able to like have an assembly line that brings me this And and it's at my schedule and I don't want it like if I gotta buy a property once a year I don't want to spend two months every year trying to like figure that out, right? I want to be able to just like put that like clockwork or or if it's two years or whatever it is, right? So
Kate:I mean and just from a business perspective like we need to be able to produce a type of inventory that we can replenish
Yeah
Kate:Right? If we, if everything was this kind of one off outlier, we would constantly be trying to fill that void and let's plug in this hole and let's plug that hole, right? Like we would constantly be doing that versus having such a repeatable product means we have enough ability to replenish that inventory as we need to. I love that.
Pablo Gonzalez:And meet people's plans and do the thing, right? Justine Herrera is saying, I have six years residential property management experience. So important to have a solid team that communicates timely and consistently. The fact that JWB is so invested in everyone's success is crucial. Not Your Average Investor Show has continued to be so informative. Justine. That's pretty awesome. Anonymous attendees says, how big is the downtown and what is considered to be in downtown? I don't know how big the is, but I can tell you that downtown Jacksonville is It's split by a river. It's got the North Core and the South Core. The South Core is this like health care sector. And then the North Core, you know, like right by the river, there's like a, it's like a pencil thin mustache strip of buildings. And then above that, it's kind of, it's been decrepit for a long time, right? Yeah. And what's really happening is that there is these Big foundational like anchor projects that are coming, you know, one is the stadium and the stockyards and all this development that's being done by shotgun is going to include a four seasons and all these other things. And on the other corner is DWB has procured 20 city blocks of downtown and out of the first, like, I don't know, six or eight blocks is the pro street district, right? You're already, you're already proving it out with this like first cluster that you have is that have a name. No, but before Pearl, it's like the, the Sweet Pete's and you know, so there's like a cluster there that they've proved it out with. And then they just went really ham at this other part that if, you know, it's, it's essentially going to be like a four block by like four block full on citywide development with mixed use retail, hospitality residences, like publics, public spaces, that's going to completely activate that area.
Our, our. Your office, your
Pablo Gonzalez:office is going to be there, right? So like, and once that happens, that's kind of like what a downtown, well, when I say the 10, 000 units, so first, first let's fill, let's finish filling that in. When when you want to fill in a downtown you have to like build these clusters and then they end up connecting Yeah, I lived through this in Miami. Yeah, right like downtown Miami was dead Brickle started happening and then this area called Wynwood and the design district started happening and shortly thereafter I just got back from Miami for Christmas. Yeah, it is just like it looks like Manhattan Right. Like it's just like, it's completely filled in. So that's kind of like fundamental to it. But beyond it, the thing that starts the flywheel is the number that we talk about, 10, 000 residents. When you want these units to happen, these mixed use developments to happen, Retailers need to fill in like the bottom side of it. Right. And there's like a, there's like a. Cart before the horse thing of just like are people gonna be there to buy my stuff Or is stuff gonna be there for people to buy
Kate:the demand
Pablo Gonzalez:and once you so so then that's when cities have to come in And provide incentives once you pass 10, 000 residents in a downtown core that stuff goes out the window now Holds like yep 10, 000 people. I want to sell it Yeah Publix wants to sell there right like these anchor tenants that you want now want to build so Anonymous said to be long story short is I hope that that answers your question But it's like it's a lot of these things coming together at the same time.
Kate:Yeah You I mean in Jacksonville as a whole, right, like we're the largest city by land mass in the Contingent U. S. Like it Jacksonville is huge. So downtown Jacksonville is also quite large. But it is It's kind of I feel like reflective of Jackson as a whole like you did a great job explaining it You've got kind of these different pockets Right these like neighborhoods within downtown itself the key to the success of the growth is connecting them all together
Pablo Gonzalez:You do it fun with that. You're doing great with that. Correct connecting them all together and I'll say this once I'll say it again. I Think what's really unique here is that most cities or at least my lived experience of haven't seen this in Miami, right? People recognized it and all these folks came in from everywhere and were like, how can I make a buck? What's beautiful here is that there is two very significant stakeholders that have been here that are building for the long term. Shaad Khan has been there since he since he brought to JAGS and all the stuff that he's done for the city has been phenomenal. And then now the idea that a developer of You know, these like four partners that started when they were 24 and have grown up here doing this stuff and manage 6, 000 single family homes all around the urban core realize I can bet much longer on downtown because everybody that I've been serving for the last 17 years gets to win. They get to build it the right way. And that is so, so unique, right? Like, so it's really special to be a part of. It's really, really cool. And I'm glad you're getting credit for that on sales calls. Cause it's not easy.
Yeah, it's neat.
Pablo Gonzalez:Yeah, it's cool. All right. Couple, one more question. Joe color is asking, have you announced a registration for your tour at the end of February yet? No, Joe, we haven't said the registration just to save the date that it is going to be the last day. I think it's February 28th and March 1st. Right. Yes, it is. It is those two days. So try to get here February 27th and and stay through the weekend it's gonna be a lot of fun, but we will be announcing that here shortly and Mike Foster also had a had some clarity plus the non jwi. Alright, so this is When they were asking can you buy your own property and bring it to Jackson to JWB Mike Foster's clarifying because he's a fan of the show as well and a client that the J the property has to be in Jacksonville For JWB. Yeah.
Kate:Yep. It has to be in Jacksonville and he is correct as well We have a minimum livability standards that we have to make sure our team's gonna go walk it It meets those standards for us to feel like we can manage it.
Pablo Gonzalez:There you go. Mountain Man Billy Green says he just now noticed that you have champagne glasses on your sweater. I know, I know. Cheers. She, Kate had that. I'm like, oh my god, you have the great happy new year thing. And she's like, I also have hats and stuff. So she brought this stuff. And that distracted from your already festive attire. I just,
Kate:I, I really knew today's my opportunity to go big on the show.
Pablo Gonzalez:Kate, I don't know if anybody's ever told you this, but you have this like magical effervescent, like energy, like akin to like Buddy the Elf, but, but like not goofy, right? So it's awesome. Like you're always like festive attire and you're always like raising the energy in the room. I think it's really cool.
Kate:Make the most out of what you got.
Pablo Gonzalez:Well, speaking of the most of what we've got, I think we've made the most out of 2024 today, Kate.
Kate:I know. I'm going to put you on the spot. Oh
Pablo Gonzalez:God. Okay. Okay.
Kate:Biggest accomplishment.
Pablo Gonzalez:My biggest accomplishment in 20 you've
Kate:accomplished a lot and I feel like I
Pablo Gonzalez:watch you I feel thank you. Thank you I appreciate that. Yeah, um gosh, I honestly think that 2024 Was the year that I truly became a leader and I embraced leading, you know, like going to having the foresight of Setting an expectation for my company at the end of the year traveling to the Philippines to meet my team and casting vision and getting their buy in and Making them believe that if they leveled up the company will level up and if the company levels up it would make a material difference To their life and then being able to deliver that on them. I just I just gifted them all new computers yesterday Yeah So like being able to like deliver on all of that has really made me embrace leadership in a way that I never had and I think that's my biggest accomplishment
Kate:Yeah.
Pablo Gonzalez:Thanks for asking. How about you?
Kate:Biggest accomplishment? I would say, I mean, I have like personal, I have a three year old and a one and a half year old and the husband just, this was a year of just kind of like building for us. Like, you know, we, I don't know it last year. We looked at my daughter and so this year it's kind of like learning our new normal and like building some sort of Consistency at home and like figuring out what life looks like what you and that it's just so fun Like I just got to experience the the holidays with them and to see the holiday spirit in their eyes You know, I get to live vicariously through them now, so That I would say is the biggest personal accomplishment and then I think The sales side of this, like we haven't had very easy last two years from a market perspective. And to really be able to build a team here who is just so rallied around who we are as a company and what we do. And you, you kind of look at what we ask our sales folks to do, which is, Hey, I need you to sell a home, but don't really sell the home. You know, like really learn our team and really, really sell that because that's ultimately what matters. Yeah. To have done that and to have a really great team of folks around me and then I just get to celebrate and coach them. That that's really neat.
Pablo Gonzalez:That's not easy and I agree like I I I've seen you grow as a leader and see you grow as a professional since I've been here and It has been a tough two years of like from the greatest of times where like people were like rushing in without knowing what they're Doing to like the hardest of time to sell this stuff. Yeah And maneuvering all that stuff, keeping the culture alive, keeping the, keeping the dream alive, keep selling the dream.
Kate:That's right, cheers in our champagne flutes. But I mean that kind of like to end this out, right, is now, and now you've got folks that are coming in, clients that are coming in saying like, hey, I'm in on this Jacksonville thing. Yeah. I know what I need out of an operator. And then like, we get to fill that love bucket so quick. Yeah. Like that is us. We've got that. That's huge. That's huge. It's
Pablo Gonzalez:awesome. Well, here is to an awesome 2025 for both of us and for JWB and for the Not Your Average Investor Show community. I can't believe that we had 70 folks join us today. That's amazing. Right? Like we're like is anybody even going to come to this because it's 31st? And, I was like, Greg, no one's gonna come, but I was wrong, Greg. I was wrong. You were right, GC. You were right. You were right. So we can't, I like, I can't, like, I love that I'm doing it with you, right? Because this community built from the ground up and it just means so much to us that you spend, you know, hours with us throughout the week, middle of the workday, on December 31st, getting ready for, for New Year's and you're still here, still asking great questions, still being great. It's amazing. We never take it for granted.
Kate:Cheers to 2025.
Pablo Gonzalez:Next week, we're diving into the top five predictions that Fannie Mae has put out in the real estate market. But from now till then going into 2025, Kate, do you have any advice for people?
Kate:Don't be average.
Pablo Gonzalez:Don't be average. Happy New Year.